Wednesday, 18 February 2009

Fame and Fortune could not save Jade Goody

I do not normally invest my time following celebrity news nor do I endorse Christians doing so either, I believe as believers we should completely separate ourselves from the world. However there are some stories that come to our attention even as believers because although we are not of the world, we still are in the world, 1 John 2:15. I did not feel it was right for me to blog about a celebrity, but then again I thought this is such a tragic story about life and death, and the issue of faith has already been raised a few times , so why should I not write about it for God's glory. My husband and I were discussing it yesterday and he too thought it was a good idea for me to blog about it. Its the tragic story everyone is talking about. The nation is watching as the most talked about British reality Television personality dies of cervical cancer. Despite her fame and her millions, there is nothing the doctors can do to save the life of Jade Goody, she has been told she has about six weeks left to live. Her story has touched the nation, that even the Prime Minister Gordon Brown has wished her well.

At 27 Jade Goody is only a year older than me. Jade, like me is also a young mother so I can imagine the pain she must be experiencing knowing that within weeks her children will no longer have their mother. Since she was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago, Jade has since said she now thinks about spiritual things, she said she never used to be a church going person, but she now reads her bible and prays to God. She has said what hapened to her made her appreciate the gift of life even more. She has recently said she wants her two boys Christened so that they can know Jesus and be able to communicate with her when she is gone. This is what breaks my heart the most about this tragic story. A woman on her death bed, who believes reading her bible and praying to God will send her to heaven. A dying mother who believes in the unbiblical act of christening and that her boys will find Jesus through it. A dying mother who believes that she will be able to communicate with her sons when she is gone, and that she will be in heaven, yet there is not one verse in the bible that supports her thinking. What saddens me is Jade Goody's false belief about God, about Jesus Christ and about Christianity. I can't help but think; has anyone ever witnessed to Jade? Does she know the gospel of Jesus Christ? Does she know that we are justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ,not by Christening, not by bible reading, not by prayer, not by going to church. Does Jade know John 3:16 that For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that those who will believe in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life? Does she know that Christ came into the world to save sinners like her, 1 Timothy 1:15. Does Jade Goody know that unless she repents and believes, when she dies in the next few weeks she will spend eternity in Hell. Has anyone warned Jade Goody of the wrath that is to come, that the only thing that is left for her to experience when she dies is the Holy wrath of the Almighty God. It is a fearful thing, to fall in the hands of the living God, Hebrews 10:31. Many people are saying that Jade did not deserve to die like this. Sadly what these ignorant people fail to realise is that we all deserve to die like Jade. We all deserve a horrible excruciating painful death. The truth is we get what we don't deserve, life, health, families, wealth, food etc. If we all got what we deserved, God would strike us all dead this minute, but because God is full of mercy and slow to wrath, but He is long suffering towards us, willing that we should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9.

However I am thankful that at least something good has come out of Jade's tragedy, many women in Britain have now booked to have the smear tests they used to ignore and there is now more awareness about cervical cancer since Jade's diagnosis. Jade's case is so sad because her cancer was missed by doctors for 3 years, by the time it was discovered it was too late. She has said she is not angry with the doctors who failed to detect her cancer sooner, I do commend Jade for that. I read that she asked the question," Why would God not give me the chance to watch my sons grow?" When I read that I thought here is a woman who understands the sovereignty of God. To some degree she knows that God willed for this to happen to her, that God has in his sovereignty allowed this tragedy. It made me think, as a young mother myself with three young children, what would I do if I were to find myself in Jade's situation? I am not afraid of death, for I know exactly where I would go if the Lord would call me home today, for death has lost its sting. But I would find it extremely painful to leave my young children without a mother. I want to watch them grow, I want to teach them the things of God, I want to watch my boys, God willing, grow into godly men who will serve Him with all their hearts, I want to see my daughter develop into a virtuous young woman, I so want to see the rewards of my work in my children when they are adults. So would I surrender to the will of God, and say blessed be His name, if I was in Jade Goody's situation? God have mercy on me, that's a painful place for any mother to be in. My heart goes out to this woman, even though I have not necessarily agreed with her lifestyle and the things she has done. I do not know Jade but I do not want her to go to Hell, I do pray that just like the thief on the cross, who looked unto Jesus at the moment of death, I hope Jade too will look unto Christ and call upon His name. Unless she turns to the Lord Jesus Christ, Jade as rich as she is, as famous as she is, she has no other hope. Jade by the looks of it, even on her death bed is still hanging to her fame. Jade has publicised every detail of her illness since her diagnosis. She is still being filmed for her reality TV show, and her death may be seen on TV. She says she is doing this for her two sons, that they may be financially secure in life and have the best education money can buy. Jade already has enough money to secure her children's future financially, she does not need to take things this far, how would her two boys feel when they are older, when they learn that every detail of their mother's death was on national television and in every paper and in every magazine. Jade has to know that its not all about money, or the best education or the best chances in life. We were not created for ourselves but for God, to glorify Him alone. All things were created by Him and for Him, Colossians 1:16. The greatest need her boys have is not money or the best education, their greatest need is spiritual, because of their total depravity they need a saviour to save them from the wrath that is to come. Does Jade know that she and her boys were created by God for Himself? May God grant Jade repentance and may those who love the Lord pray for this young woman, that her eyes may be opened before it is too late.

130 comments:

TemiT said...

As a fellow christian, I would advice you to be careful about the tone you use when discussing the lives of other people. You have come across as quite judgmental towards Jade and your overall tone seems to be one of self rightousness.
Obviously Jade is a person who has only just started her walk with Jesus Christ and as a result she clearly doesnt have a full understading about the significance or insignificance of certian things (this is clearly evident from her reasoning behind wanting to get her children christened). I think its wrong of you to be critical about that because, whether or not you agree with the act of getting a child christened, at least she is making some sort of effort to incorporate Jesus into the lives of her children. I am sure that if she had time to grow in her faith she would take a more spiritually mature approach to such things.

The fact of the matter still remains that she is a person who is staring death in the face and has made an active choice to address how she spends eternity. God Almightly is the only One who can see deep into someone's heart and if Jade has truly repented, I see no reason why she shouldnt be saved.

Instead of attacking the girl in a 'Christian' way, why dont you write something that will be of encouragement and edification?

This is the only part of your blog I have read so far and I must say that I am slightly alarmed. I think it is important for you to understand that its not only Christians who will read your blog but non-beleivers also. A lot of them view Christians as a very self righteous and condecending bunch and the unfortunate thing is than you seem to perpetuate that throughout this entry.

I would advice you to seriously seek God's face before you add another entry into this blog.

Jean said...

TemiT said, 'You have come across as quite judgemental towards Jade and your overall tone seems to be one of self rightousness'

Do you not realise that the very thing you accuse me of, is the same thing you are doing here. Why is it ok for you to judge me, and yet you condemn me passing judgement to others. What scripture says that I should not judge others, Jesus did condemn hypocritical judging, Mathew 7:1-5 ( like what you are doing). We are to pass judgement in an attitude of love, that is what I have done in Jade's case.

TemiT said, 'I would advice you to seriously seek God's face before you add another entry into this blog'
I already do that.

TemiT said, 'I think it is important for you to understand that its not only Christians who will read your blog but non-believers also. A lot of them view Christians as a very self righteous and condecending bunch and the unfortunate thing is than you seem to perpetuate that throughout this entry'

I suggest if you are truly saved, stop worrying about what heathens think about Christians, start worrying about what God thinks about heathens, then go preach the gospel!

TemiT said, 'The fact of the matter still remains that she is a person who is staring death in the face and has made an active choice to address how she spends eternity'

Jade can not choose God. It is God if He wills, who will choose her. Jade has no capability to make an active choice about her salvation, neither do you, John 15:16.

muri said...

I am a fellow Christian. God sees the heart and will respond to any genuine cry from the heart however untheological the reasoning. He knows Jade's background and experiences and is able to reach her however late it is, if she is genuinely seeking Him.

I know many who are praying for her salvation as well as her healing. Jesus still heals today and if this is not for Jade, He is able to speak to her, spirit to spirit, in any unconscious moments before death when no human voice can be heard. My prayer is that she will see Jesus in life or in those last unconscious moments. Then she will instantly know that He is the truth she seeks as well as the way and the life. She will need no theological explanation then.

He WILL receive any who turn to Him. My prayer is that she will see Jesus.

lyn said...

This is very well written Jean, and very heartbreaking. It is a prime example of man {in this case, a woman} reaching out to God his/her own way. This woman appears to have some sorrow over her condition, but NO brokenness over her sins. God only responds to those who are broken over sin {'Blessed [are] the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'-Mat. 5:3} Such a person is spiritually bankrupt, they are literally crushed under the weight of their transgressions.
As for this lost soul 'growing in faith', faith, like salvation, is God's gift; He awards it to all who are broken over sin.
I get tired of professing Christians stumbling upon blogs everywhere and throwing out the ONLY verse they've ever read in scripture, 'judge not lest you be judged!'. PLEASE, stop this!!

This comment from Temi, 'has made an active choice to address how she spends eternity.' We do NOT choose Jesus Christ, He is NOT a decision we make. The Gospel has been so watered down; it is nothing more than the lost sinner going through some steps, repeat a prayer, make a decision, invite Jesus into your heart....NONE of this is found anywhere in the bible. It is preached from pulpits everywhere and has produced TONS of false converts. Professing Christians who say, 'I believe in Jesus', but their hearts are UNREGENERATE!! There is no evidence that God has done a work in their hearts, their lives are NO different than that of the lost! They have no trials, no conflicts, so storms to weather; their brand of Christianity is one of comfort. It's something y'all do every Sunday, but Mon.-Fri. you live like hell. Then you criticize a true convert, like Jean, who knows what the true Gospel is. The question really isn't 'do you know Jesus', the question is, 'does He know you?'.
I recommend listening to the preaching of Paul Washer, or John MacArthur; you might not like what you hear, but, prayerfully, God will merciful to all who do so. Check this out...http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2009/02/blog-post.html
John MacArthur's website is www.gty.org

lyn said...

I also feel the need to address this comment from muri, 'He is able to speak to her, spirit to spirit, in any unconscious moments before death when no human voice can be heard.'
Oh my! Where in the Bible is this taught? I'll tell you where...nowhere! No wonder the Gospel many preach has no affect, it isn't even being proclaimed properly!
People, let's quit adding to God's word, salvation is granted by God to all who repent and believe in Christ...how is this possible when someone is in an unconscious state? Let's remember what the Bible, which is our ONLY AUTHORITY, teaches, 'that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.' Romans 10:9
How can someone in a comatose state profess Christ? How can someone in such a state believe in their heart Christ is Lord?
We have taken the Gospel and reduced it down to man's easy method. Let me reiterate, may God have mercy on all who spew out such ignorance!!!

Jean said...

Lyn
Thank you for your wise comments! You just confirmed what I was thinking but did not know how to put it down, like that Jade is sorry over her condition but not her sin, she turning to God for all the wrong reasons. Just because Jade is now talking about Jesus and God does not mean she is saved, the question is which Jesus is she talking about?
And about a person being saved when unconscious, that is a lie out of the Devil's mouth. Its not the first time I have heard this lie though.

Tom Mahon said...

TemiT said...

>>As a fellow christian, I would advice you to be careful about the tone you use when discussing the lives of other people.<<

You could have also added, when discussing her own life. For sadly, Jane often puts forward her family experiences as a model for others to follow. A humble Christian approach would point people to the example of Christ or the other people that are recorded in the bible as good examples of faith and patience.

I have tried to engage Jane and her supporters in a rational discussion about what it truly means to be a Christian, but they have accused me of supporting a cult. And my last post to Dan was even deleted because I asked him to provide evidence to support the comments he made about a former Christian leader.

Sadly, some people have a zeal for God, but it is often zeal without knowledge.

Natasa said...

lyn, you said right... it is terrible how some twisted Scripture...

lyn said...

Hi Jean, I thought of some of these postings as I listened to Conrad Mbewe preach on total depravity. Here is the link, http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=219092242321

This message is such a blessing, I do hope many will listen.

muri said...

From Muri - just to set the records straight with those who have judged I speak lies out of the devil's mouth. If you read through you will learn some scriptures you have perhaps not understood. Part of my own ministry is engaging in spiritual warfare (Eph 6) and for this it is essential to 'rightly divide the word of truth' and discern good from evil.

My beliefs
I am saved by grace through faith
I believe that Jesus is the only begotten son of God
I blieve He was scourged for our transgressions and shed His blood on the cross for our salvation.
I believe He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven and is coming back soon for all whose names are written in the book of Life.
JN 14:6 I believe Jesus is the only way and truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Him.

I ALSO believe He descended into hades and preached the good news to those who were bodily dead but were alive in the spirit and who 'heard' the good news in the spirit.. 1 Pet 4:6
I believe that unless we are born again of the Spirit we shall not enter the Kingdom of God. JN 3:5 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

I believe the body without the spirit is dead. JAS 2:26 Until the spirit has gone, the body is alive. Those who are unconscious but are not brain dead can often hear what is said and morover can respond to the Spirit. It is the human spirit that hears the voice of God and the Holy Spirit that brings conviction to the human spirit. John 16:8

I believe no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit of God in him. 1Cor 12:3
I do not dare to presume who has, or has not responded to the Spirit in the secret places that I am not aware of. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." Jn 3:5
God sees the heart and knows the hearts cries which are not known to another - 1 Cor 2:11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God

I believe we are chosen before the foundation of the world Eph 1:3 by the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world.Rev 13:8. That is the mystery of the gospel - how he chooses us but also leaves us to choose.
I also believe that Jesus said He is not willing for any to perish but to all who receive (turn genuinely and believe in him) to them He gives the right to become children of god JN1:10
I believe He came to seek and save the lost and sinners Lk 19:10
I believe he is not willing that any perish 2 Pet 3:9 - In other words He chooses everyone who will come.
I believe JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned,

I believe the Scriptures that show that sometimes Jesus healed first before they believed & understood, sometimes He drove out demons first, sometimes he required repentance and confession first. There is no formula in the way He reaches people and changes their lives.
I DID SEND JADE AMESSAGE ABOUT JESUS BEFORE THIS BLOG STARTED - DID YOU?

I do believe we need to repent and confess our sins and put to death the deeds of the flesh...But this does not acquire salvation - the blood of Jesus saves
I believe we are comissioned to tell the good news about Jesus to heal the sick - (neglected by the church) - set free those opressed (by evil spirits ) a ministry also neglected by the church, and to make disciples and teach them all that He taught

I believe Jesus will continue to step in to seek and save the lost directly at times because the church is not doing what it is commisssioned to do in telling the good news, healing the sick and setting the oppressed free..

I believe God promised to speak in visions and dreams Acts 2:17
He spoke in this way to a family in a land where Jesus cannot be mentioned without terrible consequences.
This is a true recount direct from missionaries connected. A Father was dying and unconscious and his children in deep dispair begged him to speak or indicate he heard. Nothing happened and he died. A few days later his son dreamed his Father came and spoke to him. 'Son I heard you calling me but for 3 days I was fully occupied with Jesus. He was telling me the Truth and the way to life. You must tell your mother and sister and become Christians and follow Jesus'. The son was deeply moved and went to find his sister. She was crying and said I dreamed of Father and he said when he was unconscious he was talking to Jesus but he could hear us. The dream was exactly the same. The family became Christians. This sort of experience is often heard in lands where there is no freedom to speak about Jesus.

No I dont believe the dead can contact the living but I do believe God can communicate these things in ways we don't understand. Nothing would persuade a family to become Christians and face unbelievable opposition, persecution and even death unless it was a work of the Spirit. I don't believe this is the way God intended the gospel to be heard but I believe He can and will reach, Spirit to spirit, those whom the church has neglected because He is merciful and is love. Muri

lyn said...

Muri~ You start with this, "just to set the records straight with those who have judged I speak lies out of the devil's mouth." No one made this claim. Your claim that, "He is able to speak to her, spirit to spirit, in any unconscious moments before death when no human voice can be heard"--this is not found anywhere in scripture.
Then you say, "I do believe we need to repent and confess our sins and put to death the deeds of the flesh...But this does not acquire salvation - the blood of Jesus saves"--again, you are incorrect. Christ clearly says in Luke 13:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Salvation is not possible apart from repentance. The blood of Christ cleanses us from sin, His death and resurrection are what reconciles us to God, salvation is God's gift, given by His grace. Christ paid it all and did it all. The power of God raised Him from the dead, that same power raises us from the dead; dead in trespasses and sin.

As for Christ's healing, miracles and feeding the masses, these were performed so the people may believe He was the Son of God. Sadly, most flocked to Him for their felt needs, when He started preaching about Him being the bread from heaven, how they must 'eat his flesh and drink his blood', many departed. They weren't interested in anything other than living for the moment and being comfortable in this life.

This comment from you, "That is the mystery of the gospel - how he chooses us but also leaves us to choose"-again I must ask you, where is this found in scripture? We do NOT choose Jesus, it is beyond our capability to do so.
Let me explain, the Bible makes it clear, we are all dead in trespasses and sin {read Eph. 2:1}, we all have a sick, incurable heart {Jeremiah 17:9-the phrase 'desperately wicked' means 'to be sick, incurable'}. From these two passages, it becomes clear, we are spiritually dead with a terminal disease...sin. We are in bondage to it until God's grace frees us. No one can come to Christ unless the Father draws them {read John 6:44}.
God brings to life the dead sinner by breaking them over their sins, by humbling them and bringing them to repentance. It's like when the tax collector cried out, 'O God, have mercy on me, a sinner'. This was heartfelt, this man had been broken by the power of God over his sins, that same power that brought him into the light of his condition and broke him is the power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
So, it is impossible for us to 'choose' Jesus, our hearts are dead, our minds reject God. God must first do a work, drawing the dead sinner to Jesus.

Now, you said, "I believe Jesus will continue to step in to seek and save the lost directly at times because the church is not doing what it is commisssioned to do in telling the good news, healing the sick and setting the oppressed free"...Jesus Christ has never stopped 'stepping in' to save the lost! We save no one! It is the power of the Gospel, when proclaimed properly, that changes lives {read Romans 1:16}.

This claim by you is both scary and borders demonic activity..."A Father was dying and unconscious and his children in deep dispair begged him to speak or indicate he heard. Nothing happened and he died. A few days later his son dreamed his Father came and spoke to him. 'Son I heard you calling me but for 3 days I was fully occupied with Jesus. He was telling me the Truth and the way to life. You must tell your mother and sister and become Christians and follow Jesus'. The son was deeply moved and went to find his sister. She was crying and said I dreamed of Father and he said when he was unconscious he was talking to Jesus but he could hear us. The dream was exactly the same. The family became Christians. This sort of experience is often heard in lands where there is no freedom to speak about Jesus"
Once again, you claim an unconscious person is capable of hearing and responding to the Gospel! This is not biblical! You say they were told to 'become Christians and follow Jesus', where does the bible say this? How were they to 'become Christians'?
No one just decides to believe in Christ, nor does God tell them in a dream to be a Christian. This is not taught anywhere in the Bible, remember this from Ephesians 2:8.9, 'For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.' Salvation is God's gift, He gives this gift by His grace, not by our decision, or choice.

Jean said...

Thank you Lyn, What a powerful speaker Conrad Mbewe is, wow! I was blessed.

Muri, Lyn has covered most of what I was going to say to you. I will add however. One thing you have to know is this, 90% of truth mixed with 10% lie is actually a lie. Once the truth becomes corrupted with even one lie, its no longer the pure truth , is it? If I go to the grocery shop for milk, then I tell you I went to the grocery shop for eggs instead, I will be lying to you, its as simple as that. You are mixing truth with error Muri. You may quote Scripture, that bit is true yes, but the Devil also knows Scripture and yes he quotes it too, (Mathew 4:6, the temptation of Jesus), but He twists it and takes it out of context.

Do you believe there is one God, you do well, but guess what, the devils also believe and tremble! James 2:19.

As for writting to Jade, I was concerned enough to try to send her a message through SKY News, I highlighted the gospel, warned her of the holy wrath of God in Hell if she died without Christ and spoke of God's grace, sadly my message was rejected by Sky, I was not surprised though, I preached the gospel! So I thought I have my own blog, I will say what I have to say here. So yes I did try sending Jade the message of the gospel.

muri said...

I suggest you get on your knees and fast (days not hours) and pray and study the scriptures and you will find God's truth and revelation you did not expect.

The story about the father came first hand from a respected missionary society which lives under constant threat and sees more people saved into the Kingdom than you could ever touch in the whole of your life. A society persecuted because of their preaching about Jesus.

As for the devil knowing the scripture I know thst well. My ministry is to set people free from his grasp and I daily pray with people who the Lord sends (not sought by me) I see many set free in the powerful name of Jesus from deep hurts and addictions. They go away rejoicing and are often physically healed and always have a closer walk with God. They also have a deeper grasp of who they are in Christ and a better understanding of scripture. The devil does know the scripture and he also knows when a Christian knows both the scripture and the authority they have in Christ to defeat him. Stand firm and he goes trembling.

Sadly there is a legalism about your words that limit God and give the devil the very chance you keep talking about. The word of God is living and active and there is deeper revelation for those willing to mine for it as for silver and gold. That means prayer and fasting in humility. Do away with the criticism and the pointing finger. You do not yet have all knowledge, leave God to judge His own.

Tom Mahon said...

Hi muri,

Although there were a few points that would need clarification, like much of what you wrote, especially your observation that, the that claimed to represent Christ are not preaching the gospel. This is so true, one would have to be suffering from supernatural blindness not to see it.

However, I have few questions I would like to ask you. But I would prefer to do so privately. You may either go to my blog and email me or let me have your contact details?

lyn said...

Muri~ Unless you can provide scripture to back your claims that God saves unconscious people, your words hold no water.
Point us to chapter and verse that states such, then we can discuss this further. If you cannot, or will not do so, then please, move on.

Marie said...

Hi Jean,

I am a relative newcomer to your blog but wanted to support what you wrote in your original entry (just skimmed over the comments quickly). Now, being in the US, I will admit I have never heard of Jade Goody until this week - I really don't watch TV (reality or otherwise) and only saw her name and photo briefly on Yahoo.

However, from what you said, (an there was NO tone of legalism or self-righteous there AT ALL - only a loving concern for the soul of another), this young woman has not heard the truth. I've come across lots of people who suddenly "believe in something" (their words, not mine) or start praying in the face of tragedy, illness of their children (I work as a medica interpreter), but don't believe in the God of the Bible, are uncomfortable when you mention the chaplaincy program (an offer to have someone come and pray with them), and reject the Gospel. I completely understand where you're coming from, and the urgency of her situation really brings it home.

It sounds like this young woman is still deceived, and following the world's cheap imitation of faith ("pick-your-own-religion"). One of the greatest fallacies is that we can come to God on our own terms. That is the very essence of pride. We really have no idea how high the stakes are (eternity separated from God). Your posting was right on the money, and it is good that you reached out to her with the Truth. Unfortunate that Sky rejected your letter.....there must be other Evangelical Christians in Britain who are bringing the Gospel to her.

The comment about "so her sons can communicate with her after she is gone" is telling. A previous poster said she is in the beginning of her "walk with God" - has she ever made a profession of being born again? It sure doesn't sound like it. We can't assume that because someone suddenly believes in an afterlife that he or she has surrendered his or her life to Christ. There's a big difference.

God bless you for your heart for the lost. I've never sensed anything but a heart of gratitude and humility from you, that Jesus has taken you from the same wretched pit and redeemed your precious life. Why would Jean not long for the same blessing in the lives of others?

sparkles said...

Please just pray for Jade as she genuinely seems to be comforted and reaching out to God's word in her tragic predicament. God's holy spirit is speaking and also reaching out to her.

Remember miracles can and do happen. She could be fully healed. This is also possible. This would indeed be a great and fitting testimony in Jades life of God's supernatural power. You also need to pray that in her circle she will be drawn to the right person who will give her the right spiritual counsel.

We can help by praying through christian love that like a mustard seed her minute spritual understanding will grow and that she will find Jesus as her personal saviour. All the signs are there for this to be possible.

Tommy 3 Lions said...

Good article, shame that some responses seem to lack discernment and quote scripture out of context.
You have never denied Gods love for Jade only questioned her 'up to now' response. I know that you are praying, maybe even fasting for her. Many today invent their own god 'I'll be okay , my god is all forgiving, he knows i tried to live a good life'.. I hear this often and my response is 'where do you get your god from as the God of the Bible is not like this'. The God of the Bible does not save through works but through the atonement purchased by the blood of His son, through the act of faith believing in it as a lost sinner. Keep praying for jade, may the Lord open the eyes of her understanding (eph)that she would call on him and repent.

lyn said...

This is absolute heresy, 'All the signs are there for this to be possible'. This woman is reading the bible out of desperation over her dreadful condition, NOT because she is broken over her sins!!! She is afraid to die, her heart is not right with God. Until God reveals to her her own wickedness, all her bible reading is worthless. She doesn't have the capability to understand unless God opens the scriptures to her.
And this comment, 'she genuinely seems to be comforted and reaching out to God's word in her tragic predicament' is heresy as well. She is genuinely comforted? Not so, not until she has been broken by the power of God over her more serious offense, her sins. True repentant sinners are not comforted; instead they are crushed under the conviction of sin.

Ladies and gentlemen, let us quit preaching a 'feel good' message, let us quit spewing out this nonsense of easy believism. NO ONE comes to the Father except through the Son, and then they do not come in a casual, flippant manner. Again, remember the parable of the two types of prayer, "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 18:10-14

At this stage, the only prayer we MUST pray is for God to save her soul. So many want to cling to physical life, but, it is a vapor. Even if God were gracious and healed her, there will come a time when she will physically die. Yes, it would be wonderful for God to heal her physical body. BUT, this woman's greater need is spiritual.

Tommy 3lions sums it all up with his statement, 'Keep praying for jade, may the Lord open the eyes of her understanding (eph)that she would call on him and repent.'

Jean said...

"Please just pray for Jade as she genuinely seems to be comforted and reaching out to God's word in her tragic predicament. God's holy spirit is speaking and also reaching out to her."

Sparkles, your statement shows how ignorant you are of the true God of scripture, right now Jade does not need comfort, she needs salvation. If God saves her, His grace will be sufficient.
Jade Goody continues to live her lifestyle of sin, there is no evidence that her heart of stone has been changed, we are seeing on TV that this is a lost soul. How Jade is still craving the media attention, if she was saved, she would be giving God the glory for saving her from her sins, surely. Its so sad that "Christians" in Britain are declaring Jade a member of God's family now, why, because she read the bible and mentioned the name of God. May God awaken this dead nation!

Christian-Jedi-Alliance said...

"Fame and Fortune could not save Jade Goody".

It almost sounds like you really are praying for Jade. The problem is though, your heart seems to be committing her to Hell. There is an air of desperation in your words that sound like you are praying for her to go to Hell. Where does this hatred come form? It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Jade was accused of racism would it?

I can promise you here and now, that tragedy will befall you if you do not amend your heart. Remember my words! I am not a Christian believer so you can pump out your vile puritanical hate speech until you turn blue in the face. But I do know that you will come a cropper shouting out such hate into the universe: it bounces back lady, it really does.

lyn said...

Could you elaborate from the article where this comes from..."There is an air of desperation in your words that sound like you are praying for her to go to Hell. Where does this hatred come form? It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that Jade was accused of racism would it?"


And this ridiculous threat, 'I can promise you here and now, that tragedy will befall you if you do not amend your heart'...honestly, where DO you people come from?!?!

FYI~ EVERY ONE OF US IS HELL-BOUND. Only God's intervention, by His grace, saves any. NO ONE deserves anything less, we are all wicked at heart.

Then you have the audacity to spew out this, 'I am not a Christian believer so you can pump out your vile puritanical hate speech until you turn blue in the face'....HATE SPEECH????? WHO THREATENED WHO HERE?? You hurl wild accusations with absolutely NOTHING to back them...except...EXCEPT the hatred that is embedded in YOUR OWN HEART!!

May the God of the universe have mercy on your poor lost, deceived soul.

Marie said...

There is an air of desperation in your words that sound like you are praying for her to go to Hell. Where does this hatred come form?

Christian Jedi Guy,

what planet are you ON?? I see nothing but a heart of concern and love for a sinner blinded to the Truth in Jean's words.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why Jean's blog is such a magnet for criticism and cruelty. Nothing she says appears to be in pride or dissention. Why are you discouraging a heart after His??

lyn said...

Hi Marie~ you are so right in your posts. Your observation here, 'For the life of me, I cannot understand why Jean's blog is such a magnet for criticism and cruelty. Nothing she says appears to be in pride or dissention' is one I would like to comment on, if I may. It is because all who belong to the Lamb will suffer persecution, whether it be in a physical or verbal form. When we suffer for the sake of Christ, rejoice! Let's pray for one another; to endure persecution requires the strength and power of God! God bless you Marie

Marie said...

Lyn, you're right of course; and I confess I don't have an easy time with persecution - of myself or others - for biblical beliefs. I blogged about it recently...it is too easy to forget that Christ warned us about this, and that it is indeed cause for rejoicing. My natural reaction is to want to strike back.

Actually, if our life and mindset is no different from that of the world's and sparks no heat, then we should be worried, I'm thinking.

Young Mr. Brown said...

Lyn,

Thanks for the link to that sermon from Conrad Mbewe. His ministry has been a great blessing to many.

Waler said...

Jean, I have been reading your blog for a while now, mostly with amusement, but this entry really annoyed me. I hope Jade doesn't read or hear of your blog. This load of self righteous muck is just what a young dying mother DOESN'T need to hear.
You are about as far from being virtuous as you can possibly get.
I've always said to all people of all religions who attempt to witness to me, 'if Heaven is populated by people like you, sign me up for Hell,' Not that i believe in either place, but it's a good way to spark an amusing rant about the state of my soul. I'll look after my soul the way i see fit, you look after yours.

lyn said...

Waler, you lash out, 'Not that i believe in either place, but it's a good way to spark an amusing rant about the state of my soul. I'll look after my soul the way i see fit, you look after yours'....so, what is your point of coming here, other than to spew out your OWN BRAND of hate?
Now, would you at the very least point out in Jean's post what it is that has worked you in such a lather?

In all fairness, this blog is for born again, blood bought believers of Jesus Christ, if you do reject God's gracious offer of salvation, {your only hope to stave off eternal punishment for your sins}, through Jesus Christ, then why come here and torture yourself? If you do not believe in heaven or hell, as you state, then why stop by? It would appear the hate you have in your heart for Jean, and all who believe in Jesus Christ, heaven, hell, eternal wrath, anything that the bible teaches is why you keep coming back.
Did you know that if you do not belong to Jesus Christ, you belong to Satan? Sound far-fetched? Not really, the Bible says, 'He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.' 1 John 3:8
Now, don't think you aren't a sinner, 'For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.' Ecclesiastes 7:20
I am not trying to 'convert' you, what I say to you is truth, God's truth. May He reveal to you your true dreadful condition, may He save you from His eternal wrath.

Waler said...

lyn, I don't consider what i said to be lashing out or at all hateful, and i've already mentioned the part of Jean's blog i found offensive. What gives her the right to make comments like that about someone who has six weeks to live? How does she think Jade's family would feel if they came on here and read that, or Jade herself? I know how i would feel if it was myself or a member of my family. I know my reaction would not be to 'repent'.
The fact that this is a Christian blog is the reason i've never commented before. I believe people have the right to think and believe exactly what they want, as long as it doesn't hurt others. This post has the potential to needlessly hurt others. I just completely disagree that Jean's post could be in any way 'helpful'

Have a nice day, i know i'm having one.

lyn said...

Waler~
I went back over your post and found nothing concerning this claim by you, 'i've already mentioned the part of Jean's blog i found offensive'. Could you be a little less vague? Be gracious enough to back your accusations by pointing us to what has prompted you to get angry, copy and paste Jean's comments so we can take a look and discuss your heated remarks. Even in court, evidence must be produced!

How nice would your day be if you were in Jade's shoes? How nice would it be if your life ended today? You are being deceived by Satan if you think upon death you have nothing to fear. You absolutely will die, and when you do, your chance for salvation from God is gone. You really have no idea what a dangerous game you are playing, thinking your life is fine, and you don't have to worry about any heaven or hell. Here's what God says to you, "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" Psalm 14:1. The definition of 'fool' in Hebrew is this; foolish, senseless, to regard or treat as foolish, to treat with contempt. God says you are without sense Waler.
If you continue on in your unbelief, the moment you die, your soul separates from your body; you will step into eternity, an outer darkness, the blackest black. This is from Job 10:22, "the land of gloom like thick darkness, like deep shadow without any order, where light is as thick darkness."
Matthew 22;13 says this, ''Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' The term 'weeping' here doesn't mean simply crying, it refers to a wailing, lamenting, howling cry, one that is continual. The phrase 'gnashing of teeth' is defined as such,'used to denote extreme anguish and utter despair of men consigned to eternal punishment in hell'.
Outer darkness is the place of the dead, those who, like you and Jade, refuse to acknowledge your crimes of sin against the God who created you and gave you life. This is where you stay until the great white throne judgment. Here's a brief description of this judgment, 'Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.' Revelation 20:11-15
May the God who created you, sacrificed His Son on a cross for you; may this same God look upon you graciously, while there is yet time; may He be merciful to you and save your lost and deceived soul.

Tina said...

Jean, I am not a christian in the same respect that you are, but I am very spiritual, and after reading your blog, I am totally in dismay in some of the things that you have said. You say in your response to TemiT comment, that in the bible it does not say that you cant judge and that jesus judged, yes this is true, but is it not up to Jesus and God alone to be the ones to judge how we have lived our lives down here on earth!.How would jade feel if she read your blog?. If jade is sorry for her sins and we are taught that God is an all forgiving God then, jade will enter into the afterlife. You can quote as much as the bible as you wish, but until any of us ever get to see the orginal scriptures that were 1st written (which may never happen), then how can we be sure whats in the bible is accurate?, over the years, different religious groups, have added, and put there own spin on the orginal scriptures,soo we dont know what the 1st orginally scriptures ever said, and there is much controversy about this as I am sure you are aware. I dont believe that you or anyone has the right to judge another human being,wether you claim that it is done in an attiuide of love, noone has teh right to judge anyone but only the creator himself!!. Yes it is human nature that we somtimes judge others, but we should be sorry for it when we do, how can we know what some-else is going through, or what their life has been like unless we walk in their shoes!.And heaven would be a very lonely place indeed if only born again christians went there after death as you believe.Most people try to live there lives as best as they can, but we all make mistakes, even you I am sure, but we learn from these mistakes and they help to make us the people that we are today, no one is perfect, in this life, for if God had wanted us all to be the same and be perfect he would not have given us all free will. I think words of encourgement should be spoken of towards jade and anyone else who has read your blog who is going through the same situation as Jade, instead of being quoted certain passages from the bible and being told that they will end up in hell!!.

Tina said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Waler said...

This is actually Waler, forgot my password for that account...

"Does Jade Goody know that unless she repents and believes, when she dies in the next few weeks she will spend eternity in Hell."

"we all deserve to die like Jade...."

"The greatest need her boys have is not money or the best education, their greatest need is spiritual, because of their total depravity they need a saviour to save them from the wrath that is to come."

These are the parts of the entry i found particularly offensive. And i don't think my life is fine, i know it is. Not that you'll listen to me. As i said before, think and believe what you will, just don't cause needless hurt or try to force me into YOUR beliefs.

lyn said...

Tina, I would pray Jade would read Jean's blog! {BTW-what good does being spiritual do?}

Why, oh why do you people come here and continually throw out the same old lines, 'quit judging?'
I challenge you to open the bible and show any of us how we have judged. If you can't you are GUILTY of doing the VERY THING you accuse others of!
In the end, you do not care two cents about Jean, Jade, or Jesus Christ. It is your hateful, sinful hearts that bring you here to lash out at those who have been saved from sin and hell by the grace of God.

This statement is not true, 'if God had wanted us all to be the same and be perfect he would not have given us all free will'. Here what Jesus Christ says, from Matthew 5:48, 'Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.' This is a command to born again believers, for those who are still lost in sin could never please a Holy God. Only by His grace is anyone even saved, only by His power are we changed from the inside out. Now I ask concerning your claim of free will, free will to do what? Here's what the Bible says about sinners, {which all of us are} 'And you were dead in the trespasses and sins' Ephesians 2:1. If someone is dead [spiritually], how then do they bring themselves to life? It is not possible. You have no free will when it comes to things pertaining to a Holy God, none of us has any understanding unless God grants it-'And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures' -Luke 24:45
Every one of us have an appointment with death, and we do NOT all go to heaven when we die. Only those who have acknowledged they are a sinner, turned away from sin, and submit to the Lord Jesus Christ will be saved from eternal wrath. Jesus Christ told Nicodemus this, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
It is not humanly possible to be born twice, the Lord was referring to a new inner spiritual birth. Almighty God gives all who confess and turn from sin a 'new heart' and a 'new mind' {Ezekiel 36:26}

Jade's attempt at reaching God is out of fear of death, NOT sorrow over her sins against Him. We all pray God will break her sinful heart, and bring her to repentance while there is yet time. If not, then yes, she will die and spend eternity in hell. This is what lost sinners hate to hear, and when they do, they lash out at those who dare say so.


You also said this, 'I think words of encourgement should be spoken of towards jade and anyone else who has read your blog who is going through the same situation as Jade, instead of being quoted certain passages from the bible and being told that they will end up in hell!!.

Let me ask you Tina, will these 'words of encouragement' save this lost sinner's soul? If we truly care about others, why lie and make it all 'nice' just to keep from ruffling feathers? Do you know what happens when someone dies without Christ? Do you have any idea the horrors that await Christ rejecting sinners?!? That is why Jean said what she did...DO NOT BE FOOLED, God is not going to change His mind; His word is the final authority. His word clearly states that all who reject Christ will face eternal damnation.
To candy coat this is to just broaden the wide road to hell.
May God bring you low, so your soul may be saved. We all deserve the wrath of Almighty God, because we have all sinned.

Waler said...

Never mind, found password... obviously

lyn said...

Waler~here we go, pay attention...
Your complaint #1."Does Jade Goody know that unless she repents and believes, when she dies in the next few weeks she will spend eternity in Hell."
God's word says, 'For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live' Ezekiel 18:32
"But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Luke 13;5
This comment lines up with what God says in His word.
#2. "we all deserve to die like Jade...."
God's word says, "as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; "no one understands; no one seeks for God."All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Romans 3
"Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous" Psalm 1:5
God hates the wicked, 'The Lord preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy' Psalm 145:20
So again, #2 is right on target with what the bible teaches.
#3. "The greatest need her boys have is not money or the best education, their greatest need is spiritual, because of their total depravity they need a saviour to save them from the wrath that is to come."
From Mark 10:25, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23
"Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." Jude

Nothing said was unbiblical, it might not be what a lost, dying sinful world wants to hear, but it is truth.

As I have already stated, no one is trying to 'convert' you here, I speak God's truth. If that makes you uncomfortable, repent and believe in the Gospel.

Jeans' post was based on God's word, which shapes her beliefs. Those who oppose might want to stick with the atheist blogs. Your 'prince' is about to take center stage, your anti-Christ is about to be revealed. May God have mercy, for you have no idea how horrible it is about to get.

Waler said...

"Your 'prince' is about to take center stage"

eh, prince? I'm against the monarchy, the sooner my country becomes a republic the better. *Snerk* Sorry, my attempt at morning comedy. Seriously though, reading an ancient book that's no longer available in its original format does not give you the right to say hurtful things about someone you don't even know. I find it interesting that most Christians automatic response to a little criticism is to quote scripture and bleat, "but the Bible says..." Not an original argument amongst you. Either that or they start yelling about persecution, give me a break. Do you live in fear of your life? Nuh, didn't think so. Do you have to watch what you say around friends and family for fear they'll 'turn you in'? Didn't think so. Are hundreds of your fellow christians literally being tortured and starved? Nuh, didn't think so.

Tina said...

Jean, I have just read your post in reply to mine. Yes I am spiritual and that would mean, That I believe in a creator, and I believe in an afterlife.Jean you are quoting passages from the bible, that could be interepted in many ways, which goes to prove my point, in that every religion in society today, they interept these passages and the bible completley differently, alas why we have so many different religious belief systems today that teach complerley different things. You quote: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:3
This could be interepted in so many diiferent ways just as the religious teachings you follow teach you from how they have been interepted. It could also mean, that when we die that is us being born again and then we enter into the kingdom of heaven, just simply meaning that we haev to die to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And No I didt visit this site out fear of my hateful sinning heart, I had been googling about Jade and it was link that came up, and when I ready Jeans blog I felt compelled to write sumthing back.I do NOT FEAR death like yourself, death comes to us all, its a part of life and the part that makes us live life and appreciate it,because we know that there is an end to it.And Freewill is something we all have, that God gave us so we could make decisions in life wether they be right or wrong and so that we would learn from our mistakes. And again. how r u so sure what is in the bible is accurate,as I said in my previous post, none of us have actually ever seen the very 1st original scriptures and as I say it can be interpepted in so many different ways and IT IS. Life is a journey in which we learn so many different things and lessons, that help our souls progress getting ready for the afterlife. If God is all forgiving as you state as long as you repent, then you will be saved, then why is it if someone from another religious belief system was to repent and truly mean it, then why is it you believe he wont go to heaven? Why is it only born again christians who you believe that r only welcome in heaven? If God is all forgiving then it shouldnt matter what religious belief system anyone is from. And you say I came here out of the fear of the hatred in my heart, well the only thing in my heart is warmth and love, as for you what brought to being saved as you call it, fear,feeling that you had hatred in your heart,the need to believe that you will end up in heaven!.But it doesnt really matter what I say to you, you will come back with numerous quotes from the bible trying to make me feel like I need saved by your quotes and remarks hoping that it will put fear into me like it did you. I am contented and happy, with life and I intend to get on with it as I suggest you do to.

lyn said...

Waler~
Your comment,'Do you live in fear of your life? Nuh, didn't think so. Do you have to watch what you say around friends and family for fear they'll 'turn you in'? Didn't think so. Are hundreds of your fellow christians literally being tortured and starved? Nuh, didn't think so.'-- think again! --you need to educate yourself before you simply voice your opinion...for starters, watch this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXjlkaM-ikY&feature=channel_page

Or, read this about a 10 year old mutilated for her faith in Jesus Christ, http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com/2008/12/10-year-old-mutilated-for-her-faith.html

Here's some headlines from www.opendoorsusa.org...
1.China: Tortured Christian Lawyer Arrested as Officials Deny Abuses
2.Bangladesh: Muslim Pilgrims Beat Bible Student
3.Pakistan: Christian Charged with 'Blasphemy' for Text Message
You make think a charge of blasphemy is no big deal, but according to the article, '“There have been many incidents of the sudden deaths of people charged with blasphemy.”{You can read the full stories by going to www.opendoorsusa.org}
Here's one one story, 'TURKEY: LINKS TO MASTERMINDS OF MURDERS IN MALATYA PURSUED--ISTANBUL, February 24 (Compass Direct News) – The identities of the middlemen linking the attackers and the alleged masterminds in the murder of three Christians in Malatya, Turkey are expected to take clearer focus following the latest hearing.' read the whole story at http://www.compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=long&idelement=5823

It never fails, those who hate God, Christ, Christians, the bible and all that has to do with Christianity come to these Christian blogs spewing out your own brand of hate,not really caring at all about the topic at hand, but just wanting to vent. You come ill-prepared, slinging your accusations far and wide, and smirk when we respond with what we believe...which solidifies what we as Christians already know. The battle is spiritual, evil vs. good. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." Ephesians 6:12



As for this comment, 'Seriously though, reading an ancient book that's no longer available in its original format does not give you the right to say hurtful things about someone you don't even know.'... truth is never pleasant.
Now, if you want to debate, then we must do it according to God's word. Since you reject the Living God, then why don't you simply move on?

Yes, your prince is coming, and quickly. All hell is about to bust loose, and you mock and laugh now...but, when Christ comes in judgment, you will say to the mountains and the rocks, 'Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb'--Revelation 6:16
It will be then you'll realize that 'ancient' book {which predicted the coming judgment thousands of years ago} was true.
May God humble you, saving your lost soul from hell, may His grace and mercy fall upon you while you still have breath in your lungs.

lyn said...

Tina, you say that ' Yes I am spiritual and that would mean, That I believe in a creator, and I believe in an afterlife.' Who is your creator, and what is an 'afterlife'?

There is only ONE GOD, He is the God of heaven and earth, as He is revealed in sacred scripture. Even the demons believe there is a God, and tremble {James 2:19}.
Being spiritual means nothing, Christ commands repentance {Matt. 4:17, Luke 3:5} and teaches we must be born again {John 3:3}. This is not something humanly possible. You say of this passage, 'This could be interepted in so many diiferent ways just as the religious teachings you follow teach you from how they have been interepted.' It isn't up to us to 'interpret' scripture,this passage has one meaning, you must be born from above, by God Almighty.

God reveals His truth through His Spirit. You are deceived, blinded from the truth because you are still lost in your sins. You have sinned against God, and the penalty for that is eternal torment.

This is more evidence of your need for Christ, you say, 'Why is it only born again christians who you believe that r only welcome in heaven? If God is all forgiving then it shouldnt matter what religious belief system anyone is from.'
I just gave you John 3:3, Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
This is the word of God, He has laid out in the Holy Bible His commandments, the Gospel of salvation, the words of life.

Why should it matter? Because salvation is His gift, and He gives it to those who come to Him by faith, those who repent of their sins, as His word commands, and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Not everyone who claims to be religious believes the way the Bible teaches.
You came here a confused, lost sinner. You really don't know what you believe, or why. Satan has deceived many in the name of 'religion'. That is why you need to cry out to Almighty God for mercy, for His grace to fall upon you.

Dani' El said...

@ Waler-
I'm a Messianic Jew, a Jewish Christian living in Sodom, California (San Francisco).

Although I did nothing to deserve it, I've been beaten, kicked, spat on, threatened, stuck with dirty needles, arrested and jailed without charge or a lawyer for 40 days in 2005..........etc.
Why? For something as simple as reading a bible on the bus, or wearing a Christian T-shirt.

And you should go to VoiceoftheMartyrs.com
to see what the saints of the world are suffering.
The same things are coming to Europe and the West soon.

One of the reasons Europe and the Western church is NOT being persecuted is the terrible apostasy there. Why would Satan attack what is his? He is content to corrupt and pervert what little is there.

BTW, Sister Jean and Lyn are spot on concerning Jade.
The only reason folks like us are so concerned is out of love.
Jade is showing all the signs of a false conversion that comes from the apostate preaching that dominates the last days.

So we are determined to tell her the truth, the true Gospel so she might be saved.

From that Truth, Jade could have true peace, and not the band-aid she seems to have used to patch herself up.

I am truly praying that God grants her grace, and sends someone to tell her that Truth.

lyn said...

Dani'El~ I just e-mailed sister Jean and sent my love for you through her!
I pray all is well with you brother.

I wanted to stress the link for the video I gave to Waler to watch, it is very sobering. One of the statistics it mentions is this, 'every three minutes a Christian is martyred', just because they profess Christ. Once again, here is the link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXjlkaM-ikY&feature=channel_page

The response of many of these posts is proof the truth of God's word concerning lost sinners is not pleasant. The truth that Jade will die and step into outer darkness is not pleasant either. Rather than sugar coat her final days with some of the ridiculous comments here, I pray God will bolt through the bars of this woman's sin-hardened heart and save her lost soul.
Dani'El, I know I do not need to say this, but let you, Jean, myself, and all who profess Christ pray fervently for this woman.

God bless

Waler said...

lyn, okay fair point that people in other countries are being persecuted for their beliefs, but it's not just Christians. What about the people who practise Falun Gong in China? Or the entire Tibetan nation? And YOU PERSONALLY aren't facing murder, torture or imprisonment. As for why i don't just move on, it's not because of some deep rooted fear of death, God or Hell, it's because i love a vigorous debate. I don't expect either of us to convince the other, but i enjoy the challenge of trying and i enjoy comparing different beliefs and theories.

@ Dani'el, there was nothing in Jean or lyn's tone that indicated love or caring. The way i read it, in basic terms, was like this, "Jade Goody is dying, she thinks she doing the right thing by turning to God in her way but she's not because MY way is the only way, she's been a terrible person, still is a terrible person, too bad someone like me, who has it all figured out, didn't tell her earlier....oh and btw i'm going to Heaven, she's going to Hell, oh well."
If this is not the way Jean intended to come across, then by all means she can tell me what she really meant and i can try to see her point of view.

Also, it sounds like some terrible things have happened to you Dani'el and for that I'm sorry. I've read a fair few of the things you've written, you're articulate and thoughtful and you don't degenerate into screaming, 'you're going to Hell!' like a lot of Christians I've debated with.

lyn said...

so Waler, you think you can read minds, or understand what's in a heart {here was nothing in Jean or lyn's tone that indicated love or caring}
Do you know what my tomorrow holds? {YOU PERSONALLY aren't facing murder, torture or imprisonment}

As for debating, we are done. I will not waste any more time, you have been given the Gospel, and that is all God calls for Christians to do. To go any further is pointless.

lyn said...

I do want to add one valid point, I was correct when I said you don't give a hoot about Jade, you just want to argue with Christians, this is a 'game' to you, a 'sport'. You could care less that a lost soul hangs in the balance, it gives you a 'reason' to come here and stir up the pot. Not surprising, that's exactly how Satan works!!

Waler said...

"I do want to add one valid point, I was correct when I said you don't give a hoot about Jade, you just want to argue with Christians, this is a 'game' to you, a 'sport'."

lyn, i posted because i was concerned about this poor woman's family somehow finding and reading this. It hit a chord with me because i have had a friend die of cancer and she and her family had to put up with hearing this sort of thing in her last days. Believe me, it did nothing to 'help'. You don't know me, so don't make blanket statements about me. I've kept posting because, as i said, i enjoy a debate.
There is a big difference between an argument and a debate. I don't believe i have said anything offensive, neither have i said that your beliefs aren't valid to YOU. I even conceeded you had a point about the persecution factor, though i still maintain that you personally aren't affected by it, if you are by all means correct me again.
As an atheist i am happy to talk to people of ALL religions. I like to hear what they believe and why, i also like to convey my thoughts in return. Who knows one day someone might come up with an argument that convinces ME, anything is possible.
If you think that the desire to accumulate knowledge is 'stirring the pot,' or 'of Satan', then i truly feel sorry for you because you obviously live in a very shallow world.

lyn said...

Waler~What good is human knowledge? Where does mans' quest for knowledge get him? 'What good is it to gain the whole world, yet, forfeit your soul?'-Mark 8:36
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? " 1 Corinthians 1:19-20
All the earthly wisdom in the world is absolutely worthless when you die.

You mention your friend died of cancer, do you wonder where they are? We are all touched by death at some point, I watched my mom die of cancer, my seventeen year old niece died in a car accident, and my 25 year old nephew was taken in an accident as well. Death awaits every human being ever born. I know some of my loved ones I will see again, and some I will not. Sadly, they chose to reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and now their fate is sealed.

Tell me Waler, what will happen to Jade, and you when death comes? Are you comfortable with your own death?


BTW- I am against religion. What I have is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I fellowship with other believers weekly as we get together to worship our God, sing praises to His holy name, and hear His word expounded by His minister. Organized religion is too boxy, too mechanical. True believers worship God in Spirit and in truth, in orderly fashion. We worship from the heart and soul, there's a difference.

As for me suffering persecution, fyi, I was fired from a job for my stance for Jesus Christ. It was a job I'd held for 13 years, and I praise God I have been counted worthy to suffer, even at this minute level. There's more, but it would be too complex to get into with someone who has no understanding of scripture.

Dani' El said...

Waler,
Some things to consider.
The Falun Gong are suffering for a lie.
We suffer for the Truth.
There is a very big difference.

Soon, very soon, you will see severe persecution in the USA and Europe of the Church.
Many if not most of those sitting in the pews will prove to be tares.
Deceivers. Servants of Satan who will attack from within.
It's going to get very, very ugly and many millions of Christians will be rounded up and killed.

Will you stand back and watch it?
Will you participate? Turn them in to save your hide?
I pray you wake up to the reality of the spiritual war that is raging all around and get on the side of God against Satan. There is no spiritual Switzerland.
All serve one or the other.
And there is hell to pay, or heaven to gain.
I know you are in unbelief right now. I pray your eyes will be opened in time.

I think you are reading things into Jean and Lyn's comments that are not there.
There is a certain amount of urgency for everyone, esp someone who is sick and showing signs of being deceived as Jade is.
Please don't take this urgency for anything other than sincere concern for her eternal fate.
----------------

Dear Sister Lynn,
So good to hear from you.
I've been hunkered down here in Sodom and weathering a storm of troubles, but thank the Lord it seems to be waning.
God willing I will be blogging again soon.

I pray that all is well with you and look forward to talking soon.

Your Brother in Messiah Yeshua,
Dani' El

Waler said...

"Tell me Waler, what will happen to Jade, and you when death comes? Are you comfortable with your own death?"

Nothing. Nothing will happen when she dies, nothing will happen when i die. Once we die, that's it, we're gone, we only live in the memories of the people who knew us. That is why I believe it is so important to live every second of life to the utmost. And yes, i am very comfortable with my own death. If i knew i was going to die tomorrow i would feel sorry that my son will grow up without me, that my family and friends would miss me, but that's it.

But that's just what i believe, you're entitled to believe the complete opposite if you so wish.

As for you losing your job because of your beliefs, it obviously upset you and i don't like to see anyone upset. However losing a job, no matter how long you've had it doesn't compare to being burned to death, eaten by lions, hung or imprisoned for years. I'm sorry it just doesn't. The things i just mentioned are my idea of true persecution.

"The Falun Gong are suffering for a lie.
We suffer for the Truth.
There is a very big difference."

Dani'el, I'm sorry but this made me laugh. Falun Gong followers die and go to prison for their beliefs.Do you really think they would do that if they didn't truly believe their way was the right one? They are just as convinced of their place in the world as you are. Which doesn't give any one the right to do harm to either one of you.

Dani' El said...

Waler-
The question is not what is believed to be the truth, but what is the Truth.

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Falun Gong, Hindus, Muslims, etc all may suffer, for a belief that leads to death and judgment.

A Sodomite, or Heroin addict may truly believe there is nothing wrong with what they do. Some even go as far as to say that God blesses their sin. They truly love their sin, but a terrible death from Aids has been the cost for many millions who thought just that.
They suffered for those beliefs, but they were not the Truth.
And in the end, it is judged eternally in hell.

I speak as a former Heroin addict, set free from that cruel slavery in Aug 2005 by the Cross of Messiah Yeshua.

You say you've read my blog.
If you are still alive when the judgment of Luke 17 is fulfilled, I pray you put away the foolish unbelief in an afterlife, repent of your sins and put your faith in Messiah Yeshua.
When you see this terrible judgment, you should see that you deserve the same. This should prove to you that the bible is a supernatural book to foretell this judgment 2000 years ago.
Fear God's terrible wrath and turn from your sinful ways and be saved.

Those of us who already have eyes to see, see the tsunamis, quakes, hurricanes that are growing in intensity and killing millions and know what it is.

Think about it.

lyn said...

Waler~persecution of Christians is not limited to being burned at the stake. It comes in the form of verbal abuse, constant attacks from unbelievers, as well as professing believers {they are the worst}. Some suffer greater lengths of persecution, others do not. However our Sovereign God sees fit to glorify Himself, so be it. The time is coming in this country, where true followers of Jesus Christ will indeed suffer severe persecution, even death. If you aren't called away by death, you will live to see it for yourself.
As for death, we do not just go to the ground, we all have a soul that lives on forever. Those, such as yourself, who deny Jesus Christ, go to outer darkness. Those who follow Jesus Christ go to be with Him.
The saddest part is, you won't know how wrong you are until it is too late. Deep within your own heart, you know there is something 'greater than yourself' that works and moves in ways you do not understand. You are without excuse, whether you acknowledge there is a God or not. Your denial does not take away your own accountability.

As for other brands of religion that suffer, they sadly will find out the religion they suffer and died for was false, Satan's whole goal is always to copy Christ. He will do it very shortly here with the Anti-Christ, the beast and the false prophet {just like the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit}
There is a reason the economy is collapsing globally, you cannot deny the fact that this is truth. It has to happen so the man of perdition {anti-Christ] may appear. The stage is being set for his takeover. It will be so very subtle, people such as yourself will flock to him. You can continue to roll on the floor laughing, but the smile is about to be wiped off your face. You will be filled with terror. Men will actually die from fright. May the Lord Jesus Christ be merciful to you Waler, you have no idea how wicked your satan is, but you will.

Jean said...

@Tina
"I think words of encourgement should be spoken of towards jade and anyone else who has read your blog who is going through the same situation as Jade, instead of being quoted certain passages from the bible and being told that they will end up in hell!!."

The best words of encouragement Jade or anyone in her situation needs to hear is the gospel! Without salvation the truth is Jade is lost and will perish, as a woman who is staring death in her face, and each day death gets closer to Jade, I fear for her. I pray that God will save her, as I see people continue to give her false hope that she is going straight to heaven and she continues to talk about how she will be in 'heaven' even remembering her wedding up there. Yet she has not once even confessed that JESUS IS LORD. How then can she be a true saint, saved by grace?? As many are claiming...
May those who love the Lord continue to remember this young woman, she has about 5 weeks left, its truly a tragic story, the saddest thing is Jade is not saved.

Jean said...

Brother Dani'el,
Its good to have you back!

Look up said...

Jean, with your husband not opposing your work and even coming across as supportive, it seems as though his spirit may be awakened if not yet converted. In understanding that the Lord works through means, what things do you suppose may yet be possibly done to help him trust Christ?

"Salvation is of the Lord, yet ...how shall they hear without a preacher?"

Look up said...

Good analysis Lyn.

The coming of the Lord draweth nigh! Yet experience shows that using that as a motive for salvation most often brings forth nothing but "Sham Conversions".

http://www.spurgeongems.org/vols49-51/chs2928.pdf

Once the "lions" settle down again everyone goes back to where they were. Fleeing "from the wrath to come" is different than fleeing to Christ. It may be best to encourage those like Waler to turn "to God from idols" than to turn "from idols to God". The former has them turning to the person of God, the latter usually only leaves them looking for a new idol.

lyn said...

Really, I am trying to get waler to think about their eternal destination. Even if I don't present it quite right, God will save all whom He has called. If salvation were left up to us, no one would make it. Praise God we are only called to proclaim truth!

Most sham conversions are a result of faulty evangelism, 'repeat this prayer', 'make a decision', 'choose Jesus'...these easy believism methods have filled church pews all over the globe. Some do get saved, but as Pastor Paul Washer says, 'it isn't because of these methods, it is in spite of them'.
No amount of spoken words can coax the lost sinner, but, the prayer of a righteous man availeth much!

Look up said...

Lyn

"God will save all whom He has called. If salvation were left up to us, no one would make it."

"Most sham conversions are a result of faulty evangelism..."

"..as Pastor Paul Washer says, 'it isn't because of these methods, it is in spite of them'. "

These statements are in opposition to each other.

If the conversion was a sham because of faulty evangelism, faulty human evangelism becomes the reason the person is lost, rather than that they were not called/chosen of God. There are things that God moves people to do, some will hear a false message and run with it, but if people are to be saved, God will work it out accordingly.

Many times in evangelism, God intends the evangelism not for the hearer, but for the speaker. Many of the things that we do and say are not intended for others, they are intended for us. His saints are meant to recognize this and hear/respond accordingly.

Look up said...
This post has been removed by the author.
Look up said...

"Really, I am trying to get waler to think about their eternal destination. Even if I don't present it quite right..."

I understand your heart in the matter, yet the saints are never allowed to come down on those who are lost they are to come up from under them.

Kind of like dealing with a crocodile. We can poke it from above all we want, but because of its hardened top section all we end up doing is aggravating the crocodile. If we really want to get through to the crocodiles heart, we have to come from underneath through the soft belly.

lyn said...

Truly God will save those who come to Him broken over sin, crying out for mercy and forgiveness. God draws lost sinners to His Son His way, He knows what will break through the pride of sinful hearts.
As I proclaim what He gives me, I will pray and leave the end result to Him!
I sense an urgent need to proclaim truth, for judgment is rapidly approaching. The end of all things is very, very near. There isn't much time to spare in poking holes in the darkness.
Wickedness is increasing, people are very intolerant of truth, anti-semitism is on the rise, and persecution is becoming more and more widespread. The world around us is in a chaotic mess; everything is falling into place.

You say, 'yet the saints are never allowed to come down on those who are lost they are to come up from under them'...I do apologize if my words appear harsh in your opinion, BUT, my intentions were far from being harsh. In all fairness, since you cannot see into my heart, you really do not know what I intended when I typed. I blog with a sense of urgency, my heart races because of the shortness of time. My intentions were not, and are not to offend Waler, but rather to wake up a lost and dying sinner to what's about to happen.

lyn said...

BTW, Look up, your comment, 'If we really want to get through to the crocodiles heart, we have to come from underneath through the soft belly' is a gem. Thank you for it, I will take it to heart.

God bless

Alicia said...

I am so glad I found this blog. You are a very good writer! This post was especially informative.

Waler said...

hi, all. I was busy yesterday and didn't have time to write.
@lyn,
"My intentions were not, and are not to offend Waler,"

You didn't offend me, i have a thicker skin than that. I thank you for your concern.
What i have a hard time understanding is how you can be so sure that your way is the right one. As i have stated before there are a LOT of different beliefs and religions out there and ALL of them are convinced they're right and everyone else is wrong. If you can, try to answer without quoting scripture. I would genuinely like to know why you are so secure in your belief, not why the bible says you should be.

lyn said...

Waler~ I will answer you as best I can. Up until the fall of 2003, I lived a wretched, sin-filled life. I chose to live in homosexual sin, for 13 years of my life. I left a husband because of this lustful desire. I am going to be honest, I was not comfortable out in public with women, even in the homosexual bars. Something within me was very unsettled, but I would always ignore that as much as I possibly could. I suppressed it with alcohol, lots of alcohol!
I must back up a bit, I was sexually immoral with men as well. I sinned even as a child, lying, stealing, cheating on tests, hating and being jealous of others.
I don't want to come across as though homosexuality is more severe than all other sins, however, this sexual sin, and all sexual sin does ruin the moral fabric of a society.
I have always loved my mom dearly, even when she became angry with me over my 'choice'. Deep down, I knew she was right. In the fall of 2003, my mom was diagnosed with small cell lung cancer. This news rocked my world, I was broken. It was in this brokenness that I saw myself for what I truly was, a lost sinner who had done nothing but sin against the God who made me. The reality of the fact that my mom was going to die shook me from my sinful, rebellious state against God.
It was at that point that I cried out and literally said, "Oh God, help me!" And He did Waler! how do I know? Because my life is changing. I have not been sexually active with anybody since that fall of 2003. I am so ashamed of my sinful past, now my desire is to please Jesus Christ. He has revealed Himself to me through His word.
I also used to smoke and drink, heavily, plus I cussed like a sailor. I held grudges, and hated people.
I can now say, that by the power of Almighty God, I no longer say or do any of these things. I do not hate the woman who fired me from my job of 13 years, my heart breaks for her.
Understand this Waler, the power to overcome sin is given by God, He keeps me on the right path each day.
I know people have quit drugs and alcohol on their own, I also know many who merely 'switched' addictions, trading alcohol for pills for example. Or they've quit smoking, but now chew, or live off of nicorette gum. So not everyone who says they are clean and sober really are: some are, but not all.
Another change God is doing involves the way I think. I see others wandering through this world, and I have such compassion for their lost souls. I read in the news where people are committing suicide, over things like financial worries, and my heart is saddened. There was a time when I would have thought a news story like this was 'no big deal'. I hear of the thousands of unborn babies that are being murdered each day, and I cry. When I see an aborted baby, my heart is broken beyond words. Waler, as I write this to you, I cry even thinking about this.
You don't know me, but there was a time when stories on abortion had absolutely no affect on me whatsoever. I got pregnant before I got married, and I momentarily thought about abortion, but again, I knew deep down it was wrong. You gotta know yourself, deep down, it's wrong to kill somebody else. It's wrong to sleep with somebody's husband, or wife. Where do you think this built in right and wrong comes from? From this great, merciful and loving God!
To sum it up, the reason I believe in Jesus Christ is because He has done a work in me, changing me a little each day from the inside out. I am by NO means perfect, but I am being shaped and molded very carefully, by the skilled hands of the Master Crafter.
I hope I have helped you come to a better understanding as to why I believe so strongly in God.

Waler said...

lyn, thank you very much for being honest. You have obviously had a very hard life, but it sounds as though things are turning around for you. I have a slightly better idea of where you are coming from now.
Even though you didn't ask, i'll try and explain why i don't believe in God.

I was raised in a very religious household. My parents beliefs were very similar to your own in that they believed that simply believing in God is not enough, you have to come to him through Jesus, repent and give yourself to him. I spent my entire childhood going to bible camps and study groups. Even back then none of it made sense to me. I really and truly tried to give myself to Jesus, but i could never feel and sense what my parents seemed to be able to. They spoke of a 'relationship' with Christ and God, but all i found was a void of nothingness, a blank wall.

I left home to go to college and i met a lot of different people of different beliefs. I 'tried' nearly all of them. (tried is probably not quite the right word. At the time i threw myself into them completely, body and soul.) I have been, not necessarily in this order, a catholic, baptist, seventh day adventist, wiccan, pagan, buddhist, new ager and probably a few more i can't remember. Nine years ago, my very best friend died in a car accident. She was basically my ONLY friend and her loss destroyed my world. I tried to turn to God, not in the guise of any religion, i simply sat in my barn and prayed, day after day. I got nothing, no matter what i said thought or did, there was nothing there. I slipped into depression so severe that i seriously contemplated suicide.
Then one day i had a thought. What if there's noone out there? No God, no higher power, nothing after death, no Heaven, no Hell, just us? I re read the bible. It made less sense to me than it ever had. The more i thought about there being no God, the greater the sense of peace i felt. I could finally stop striving and struggling to feel and touch something that wasn't there.
So that's my story.

Look up said...

Waler

"I tried to turn to God, not in the guise of any religion, i simply sat in my barn and prayed, day after day. I got nothing, no matter what i said thought or did, there was nothing there."

Not knowing the rest of the story, what appears to have happened here is that you attempted to come to God on your own terms. Been there, done that, didn't work for me either. What I needed to do was come to God on HIS terms, which is ONLY through His Son, and only as one would approach a king; HUMBLED. Being humbled and being humble are two VERY different things. Being humbled only happens when we get a sight of our own wretchedness.

I like this analogy in this case:
If I actually was the smartest human beign alive, my intelligence would be ranked 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. If I came across someone who would be ranked a 5, I might tend to think about how smart I was, being at least twice as smart that person. If it actually were the case it would cause me to be puffed up with pride. Then suppose my intelligence was compared to God on the full scale which is actually out of a million. 10 out of a million all of a sudden doesn't look so good, and I find myself relating much more to the one ranked 5. By a full understanding of the scale is how one is humbled by God.

We tend to look at our small righteousness' or small talents and think that somehow we are better than the next guy; but if we are given a glimpse of the absolute perfection of God, all of a sudden we shrink back and say "woe is me, I am undone" where can I turn in this matter? This is called being humbled, and this is the demeanor with which we approach Christ.

Just a thought here, but perhaps if you asked God to show you your own wretchedness that you may come to Him on His terms, He would adjust your scale that you may be humbled to come to Him.

Look up said...

Lyn

Nice testimony.

Finishing up the analogy:
Only a true Christian can come at a crocodile from the belly. Pretenders will stand on the shore or in a boat with a stick, merely annoying the crocodile; but because they trust God's provision/protection, a true Christian will be fearless enough to enter the pond. This will be the most vulnerable of positions, but they understand that is where they must be to get to the heart of the crocodile.

Have a good day!

Jean said...

Lyn thank you sis for sharing your moving testimony, I was blessed.
May we pray that what hapened to you will hapen to Jade, Waler and many more who are lost. God bless x x

lyn said...

Waler~ I am sorry about the loss of your dear friend, this kind of hurt is lifelong and only eases with time, but it doesn't go away.

You say you prayed day after day, and no matter what you said, thought or did, nothing was there. I like what a dear brother in Christ says on this matter, 'pray until God saves you or you die', we must not give up, there's too much at stake. Waler please, cry out to Him to break down your prideful heart {we all have such a heart}, ask Him to show you just how sinful you are. The prophet Isaiah was given a revelation by God of His holiness, Him sitting on His majestic throne, which was high and lifted up. Our God is exalted high above His creation. This was an absolutely breathtaking sight, the seraphims crying out, 'Holy Holy Holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory'. The holiness of God is beyond our ability to grasp. Nowhere in scripture does it say God is love love love, or God is merciful merciful merciful. But here we read our God is holy holy holy. In the Hebrew literature, repetition is used to give emphasis to what is being said. That God's holiness is declared three times denotes that God is absolutely and infinitely holy. No other divine attribute is proclaimed with such emphasis. This vision of God's holiness caused Isaiah to cry from his heart, 'woe is me, for I am undone, because I am a man of unclean lips'. God's holiness revealed to Isaiah his own sinfulness, and he was crushed by it, which caused him to cry out.
When the Apostle Peter and the others had been fishing all night, yet they didn't catch anything, the Lord Jesus tells Peter to throw out the nets [again]. Peter told Him they'd been fishing all night and did not catch anything, but he said he would do what the Lord told him to do. So they threw out the nets, and when they brought them back in, the nets were filled to maximum capacity with fish. When Simon Peter saw the power of God, here's what he said, 'Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord'. Peter realized Christ was God, His power had just been displayed through a simple fishing incident. This realization is what caused Peter to profess his sinful condition.

There is nothing I, or anyone else can say that will magically save you Waler, but I do know that if you cry out to Him with a sincere heart, a heart that realizes its condition, He hears. I know you don't like it when I quote bible verses, but bear with me. These two passages confirm what I just said, 'The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.' Psalm 34:18
'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.' Psalm 51:17
It's like planting a garden, you cannot put a seed in the ground unless the ground has been worked up and loosed first. The same scenario is true with our own hearts. Because we are all sinners, our hearts are hardened and rebel against God. That is why we must cry out like the tax collector did, 'And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.' Luke 18:13
We cannot come before the Lord prideful, we MUST come broken and crushed by the weight of our own sins, heads hung in shame over our grievous crimes against this Holy God who loves us and sacrificed His very own Son on a cross, He turned His Son over to a mob of angry sinners to be beaten beyond recognition, spit on, mocked, then the grand finale...nailed to a cross while they stood around and watched Him die, all the while poking fun.

May the Lord bless you as you read this Waler.

Tom Mahon said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
lyn said...

"Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you." And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him." Luke 8:39

lyn said...

'And I punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities.' Acts 26:11
'For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.' 1 Corinthians 15:9
'For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and [tried to] destroy it.' Galatians 1:13

The Apostle Paul had no problem testifying of his former way of life, his continual persecution of God's people, why?
'But they were hearing only, "He who formerly persecuted us now preaches the faith which he once [tried to] destroy."
"AND THEY GLORIFIED GOD IN ME."-Galatians 1:23,24

Look up said...

Tom

"And if God no longer remembers our unrighteousness, is it right and proper for us, not only to remember them, but display them for others to read?"

Actually yes it is.

The Christian would vie for title chief of sinners if a man speaking under the inspiration of God had not already made the claim. Because the title is taken we are all to consider ourselves in our present condition as next in line for that title.

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Tell me Tom, what are the circumcstances of your being humbled?

starlws said...

my heart bleeds at jade's situation. and i would beg all people on here who go by the name Christian, to put aside theological debates and denominational differences and to simply pray for the salvation of jades soul. whether you agree with jean or not, we are wasting precious time that jade just doesnt have bickering over "i dont like your tone" and other such arguments, when every moment spent trying to vent you dissagreences could be spent praying that jade finds Jesus...God's way. if we disagree on what Gods way is, let's just pray His will be done, because you cant go wrong with that.
In jesus' name.

Look up said...

starlws

Perhaps the Lord's will in this matter is this.

Jer 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.

Then what?

The battle here is very unlikely to be for Jade Goody, but it may well be for one or two of those who frequent this blog.

Tom Mahon said...

Tom asked: "And if God no longer remembers our unrighteousness, is it right and proper for us, not only to remember them, but display them for others to read?"

Look up replied: "Actually yes it is.

The Christian would vie for title chief of sinners if a man speaking under the inspiration of God had not already made the claim."

***********************************

Genuine Christian don't vie for anything. Period! For they recognise that without Christ they can do nothing.

However, Paul's background and calling was prophesied in Isaiah 49. His calling was not an accident of history. He was a special Apostle, who was inspired by God to narrate his sinful life as an example of God's patience with unrighteous men(1 Tim.1:16); so that other evil people may not despair of God's mercy and forgiveness.

However, we don't read of any of the other Apostles, or even any of the laity, confessing how evil they were before their conversion. On the contrary, through out the NT, the emphasis is on living a life of righteousness to the glory of God, not rehearsing our sins to his glory. The church of God is a community of saints, not a refuge for sinners.

Anyway, as I have said, we should not uncover what God has covered.

As for your question: what humbles me? God humbles his people in the same way he humbled Paul.

lyn said...

Peter confessing his wickedness,
'When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, "Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!" Luke 5:8
Isaiah, the prophet of God, confesses his wickedness,
'So I said: "Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, The LORD of hosts." Isaiah 6:5
David, a man after God's own heart, confesses his wickedness,
'Against You, You only, have I sinned, And done this evil in Your sight-- That You may be found just when You speak, And blameless when You judge.' Psalm 51:4

This comment about Paul,'He was a special Apostle' what made him 'special' in God's eyes, compared to any other lost sinner saved by His grace? The work Paul did was powered by God; where does God say Paul was 'a special apostle'?

Scripture gives us men confessing their wickedness, all for His glory. Our sins are forgiven, our changed lives are evidence of a regenerate heart. Our cries, 'I once was 'this or that' and now I'm free' is all for His glory.

Look up-fyi-Tom is a proponent of Herbert Armstrong's cult, WCG. One example of their cult beliefs is that God is not a trinity, but a 'family'...

Look up said...

Tom

"As for your question: what humbles me? God humbles his people in the same way he humbled Paul."

I didn't ask what humbles you, I asked 'what are the circumcstances of your being humbled?' The by your own testimony, the two are worlds apart. What humbles the lost is entirely different from being humbled. Being humbled is a permanent event that happens in a believer at the time of conversion.
Now if you were humbled in the same way God humbled Paul, you would see yourself as Paul saw himself, as "chief of sinners".

I will ask it again in different words. We know from Romans 5:6 that 'Christ died for the ungodly'. Are you ungodly?

Look up said...

Lyn

Thanks for posting some of the other examples and the heads up. :-)

Tom Mahon said...

Look up said...

>>Now if you were humbled in the same way God humbled Paul, you would see yourself as Paul saw himself, as "chief of sinners".<<

Before Paul's road to Damascus experience, he was indeed the chief sinner. But after his calling his sins were washed in the blood of Christ, and God doesn't remember them any more.

Now I don't claimed to be as humble as Paul was. But God uses persecutions and trials to humble all his children. "For God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." And the greatest sinful disease that everyone suffers from is vanity or pride.

>>I will ask it again in different words. We know from Romans 5:6 that 'Christ died for the ungodly'. Are you ungodly?<<

When I was in the flesh, yes, I was ungodly. But now that I am in the spirit, Christ has granted to me the gift of righteousness. This paradoxical mystery is in Galatians 2:20 thus: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me..." "For he that is dead is FREE from sin"(Roms. 6:7). If you have been crucified with Christ, then, you are free from sin. For you are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit.

So, you are neither MALE no FEMALE(and there are only two genders), but one spirit in Christ.

Now I am well aware that this doctrine is not understood in pentecostal churches, so they can't teach what they do not know! They tend to be more concerned with sermons of exhortation, singing, testifying and collecting money from the people.

Dani' El said...

@ Waler.

Friend, atheism, like drugs or other false religions (for atheism is as much a religion as any these days) can bring a certain temporary deceptive peace.

My story is similar to yours. I dipped my toe in just about everything in my search for God.
I wandered about, blind and deaf for 45 long years, with Satan attacking me the whole way before my eyes were opened in 05.

Trust me, the faux peace you have in unbelief is NOTHING compared to the true peace and freedom that comes from the Living God of Israel.

Due to some extraordinary events in my life in 98, I had come to believe, but still had to walk another 7 long years and hundreds of miles before the glorious day in Aug 05 when my eyes were opened to the Truth of Messiah Yeshua.

I think of Jacob who wrestled with God, refusing to let go until God blessed him.

Please, humble yourself, seek God and don't let go until He blesses you.
Be patient, be persistent, and know that I am praying for you.

Baruch HaShem,
Dani' El

Look up said...

Tom

--Before Paul's road to Damascus experience, he was indeed the chief sinner.--

Paul was claiming the title in the present tense, he says "I AM chief", not "I WAS chief". This is what being humbled is. Refusing this title is the very pride that you condemn. If Paul willingly admitted this in his regenerate condition, why do you refuse to admit it?

--Now I don't claimed to be as humble as Paul was. But God uses persecutions and trials to humble all his children. "For God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." And the greatest sinful disease that everyone suffers from is vanity or pride.--

Again you are confusing things that humble you with 'being humbled'. Being humbled is a permanent state, whereas having things that humble you is transient.

--When I was in the flesh, yes, I was ungodly. But now that I am in the spirit, Christ has granted to me the gift of righteousness. This paradoxical mystery is in Galatians 2:20 thus: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but Christ lives in me..." "For he that is dead is FREE from sin"(Roms. 6:7).--

If you look at the caps, in the verse you quoted, I gave you a hint. 'Christ died for the ungodly'. Are YOU ungodly in the present tense?

Tom Mahon said...

Look up asked...

"Are YOU ungodly in the present tense?"

In the flesh, yes. In the spirit, no, you may be surprised to learn.

BTW, the things that are designed to humble God's people bring them to a settle state of humility. Having our sins forgiven does not by itself makes us humble.

Look up said...

Look up asked...

"Are YOU ungodly in the present tense?"

--In the flesh, yes. In the spirit, no, you may be surprised to learn.--

I will only be surprised to learn that Tom Mahon has admitted that he personally is ENTIRELY ungodly.

The only thing godly in anyone is ENTIRELY owned by Christ. ALL of Tom Mahon is ENTIRELY ungodly, and any work of God that may be done in Tom Mahon belongs ENTIRELY to Christ.

Again, it's a simple question, is Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?

--BTW, the things that are designed to humble God's people bring them to a settle state of humility. Having our sins forgiven does not by itself makes us humble.--

Again being humble and being humbled are two different things. We must be humbled BEFORE our sins are forgiven.

Tom Mahon said...

Look up said...

>>The only thing godly in anyone is ENTIRELY owned by Christ.<<

***********************************

Isn't that what I stated below?

"When I was in the flesh, yes, I was ungodly. But now that I am in the spirit, Christ has granted to me the gift of righteousness. This paradoxical mystery is in Galatians 2:20 thus: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me..." "For he that is dead is FREE from sin"(Roms. 6:7). If you have been crucified with Christ, then, you are free from sin. For you are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit."

***********************************

Look up>>We must be humbled BEFORE our sins are forgiven.<<

You obviously made this up, as it is not in the bible! In fact, if your misconceived assertion were true, salvation would be of works rather than grace.

lyn said...

Actually, Look up is right on target with the 'you must be humble before sins can be forgiven' statement. This humility is not something we can produce, God must break down the arrogant sinful heart. This is the only kind God draws near to, 'The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.' Psalm 51:17
'The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.' Psalm 34:18
'For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.' Isaiah 57:15
'For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.' Isaiah 66:2
Now, the bible clearly teaches man is unable to come to God, Ephesians 2:1 says this,'And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins'. First of all, we are 'dead' in sin, spiritually lifeless. Who quickens us from this spiritual death? God...'hath He quickened'.
Only Almighty God can reveal the true condition of lost sinners to them; how?... by breaking through their arrogance and humbling them in such a way they know He has done a work.

God commands,'Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.'Hosea 10:12
Notice, the 'ground' has to be broken up before 'righteousness' can be 'rained' in. Just like the ground must be worked before planting takes place, so it is with the desperately wicked human heart {Jer. 17:9}. This heart of man is incurable, it is sick. We cannot fix our hearts, that is what Jeremiah 17:9 means. Only the power of Almighty God can 'till up' the hard ground, the calloused sin-hardened heart. Unless God first does a work in the heart, bringing low the prideful sinner, salvation will not 'take root'. To think or say otherwise means the salvation you claim or strive for is self-righteous and not of God.

Look up said...

Tom Mahon said...
Look up said...

>>The only thing godly in anyone is ENTIRELY owned by Christ.<<

***********************************

Isn't that what I stated below?

"When I was in the flesh, yes, I was ungodly. But now that I am in the spirit, Christ has granted to me the gift of righteousness. This paradoxical mystery is in Galatians 2:20 thus: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me..." "For he that is dead is FREE from sin"(Roms. 6:7). If you have been crucified with Christ, then, you are free from sin. For you are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit."


***********************************

If it were what you meant then you would have no trouble admiting that ALL of Tom Mahon is ENTIRELY ungodly.

Is ALL of Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?


Look up>>We must be humbled BEFORE our sins are forgiven.<<

Tom said...
You obviously made this up, as it is not in the bible! In fact, if your misconceived assertion were true, salvation would be of works rather than grace.


***********************************

I say...

You are taking being humbled as an attribute of man, which it is not. It is work of God by grace leaves a lost person humbled before Him, from where they then can trust Christ as Saviour.

So Tom, have you been humbled?

Is ALL of Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?

or "Have ye forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, and the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, and your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they have committed in the land of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem? They are not humbled even unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers.

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled: But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness."

Ian said...

just want to offer support

Ian said...

Hi jean and everyone,

(had a few probs with blogger - first time ive blogged - see previous message!)

I want to first say thank you to Jean for this blog! I came across you making a comment on Cranmers blog about Jade and when I read your? words I knew straight away - this person gets it! I then came to your blog and read every word, even all the hatefilled ones from your blog regarding your daughter.

I really hope every thing is OK now?

The commenters here who are genuine, Lyn, Dani'EL and others have really helped me gain a deeper understanding and perspective on my self. I have been looking for so long to find genuine Christians who actually understand true Christianity and you guys do!

The whole process of being saved is something that seems to be coming to the boil in my own personality right now. For a long time I have practiced a mediation technique from the Foundation of Human Understanding in the US - maybe Dani'EL you've heard of it?

Well the guy who runs the foundation is a jewish guy who also understands Christianity. But he has a lot of problems with Christians because of the forthright and truthful way he explains Christianity - just like Jean has. The saying the truth hurts here has never been more apt!

Anyway right now I can see the prideful way I have lived my life and the shame of it. I have to face it because I know I can't save myself. That has been my mistake. My pride has used forms like meditation to try to save itself - like Tom earlier it wants to be God.

I pray to God now that he will pull me over the line and save me from this pride. Through understanding I know Christianity and I know you guys are the real deal but I still need to be saved from the pride within. I hope God will answer my prayer because I have lived a very prideful life and caused a lot of hurt and pain. So once again thank you Jean for this opportunity of sharing this with real Christians. You are truely blessed.

I am just a wretch who I pray one day may be blessed to share the same path as you all.
God Bless
Ian.

lyn said...

Hi Ian~ God has revealed your sin of pride to you, may He be praised!
I encourage you to continue to cry out to Him, asking Him to break down anything that may be a hindrance. He is faithful, He is AWESOME!!! He will hear all who are contrite and broken.
When you confessed this, 'I hope God will answer my prayer because I have lived a very prideful life and caused a lot of hurt and pain'...let me assure you Ian, there is NO sin God cannot forgive, there is NO sin the Lord Jesus Christ did not bear on that cross. Your sin of pride was my sin as well, along with a whole heap of others. When I cried out to God, He heard me. Why? Because He first had to break me over my own prideful sin, He had to open up my 'stopped ears'. He had to open my understanding and reveal to me just how sinful I was. When God does this, you will know it! Ian, Jean, Dani'El, look up, and myself will pray for you. DO NOT GIVE UP, keep crying out until He answers you...when He does, you'll know it!! I assure you, you will know it.

There is a brief testimony for a great man of God, Paul Washer. Please consider watching it, here's the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J471VobaZks

Keep in touch with us here at Jean's blog, or e-mail any of us by clicking on our names...Dani'El, look up, Jean or myself.

Look up said...

"I pray to God now that he will pull me over the line and save me from this pride. Through understanding I know Christianity and I know you guys are the real deal but I still need to be saved from the pride within. I hope God will answer my prayer because I have lived a very prideful life and caused a lot of hurt and pain. So once again thank you Jean for this opportunity of sharing this with real Christians. You are truely blessed."

Ian

This is a very good example of being humbled, it is a work of God in your heart. Having begun this work in you, rest assured that He will complete it.

Phil 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

To help your case, I always tell people that if the Lord can save a vile wretch like me, He can save anyone. Just go to Him, taking His promises and trusting them fully for yourself.

I believe you will find this book to be of great help.

http://www.spurgeon.org/all_of_g.htm

Ian said...

Look up, Lyn,

thank you for your kind comments - this is both an interesting and a difficult time as I am literally caught between 2 worlds. Thanks look up for your words I pray that they come true. Thank you also Lyn I believe it was your words that first drew me to this blog. And to Jean for making it all possible.

Walking home yesterday I felt truely for the first time that "out there" I had real friends who understood. I felt anew because of it. Again thank you all.

I will keep in touch and look forward to "talking" with you guys again, although my online access is somewhat sporadic at the moment. God Bless you all

Dani' El said...

Ian,
Pleasure to meet you.

A good place to start would be to get a John MacArthur study bible.
It is full of footnotes on each verse that will really help anyone seeking to learn sound Christian doctrine and theology.

We will all have you in our prayers and will look forward to hearing of your progress in the faith.

All glory to the Father and His Holy One, Messiah Yeshua!!

Dani' El

Marie said...

Hi Ian,

I just wanted to add some encouragement to what Lyn and Dani'el said, and to exhort you to keep seeking God in the Bible. Find a good Gospel-preaching church where you will hear the whole Word of God preached, and spend time with the Lord every day! This is so awesome how the Holy Spirit is convicting you and opening your eyes to His Truth.

The Foundation of Human Understanding is basically a metaphysical (read: New Age) group that promotes man-exalting philosophies. You would do well to avoid it, and just stick to Christianity. People have all different (faulty) ideas about God and His nature, but the only true God is the one Who has revealed Himself through the pages of Scripture.

In "Worship: The Ultimate Priority", John Macarthur discusses why it is necessary to have an accurate view of God in order to worship Him in spirit and in Truth. I have the paperback, if you'd like I can send it to you.

Anyway, nice to "meet" you!

Jean said...

Ian, we are all praying for you:
Romans 10:12,13
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Jean

Ian said...

Hi Jean and everyone,

I hope you dont me taking up your blog but I feel I am in a battle at the moment that I know I cannot win and you guys have been a big comfort to me. Sin has made a home in me and has directed my very life. God knows that I do not want to serve sin any more but also that I am corrupted by it. My whole life and my biggest mistake was thinking I could overcome sin by myself. That is pride and is error of my being. God has shown himself to me on more than one occasion and this week showed me the two paths at are on offer. The one I dont want to serve but controls me and the path I'd like to serve and wish would control me. But I am weak also and I feared I have let God down by not choosing the path I should. That is why you and Lyn, Look up and Dani'El have been such a strenght to me this week because I know you guys understand and truth has been an enormous help to me. I have learned and understood that ultimately it is not me that chooses and that is the only crumb of comfort I can take at the moment because I feel I have let God down.

Look up your web link "All of Grace" is a wonderful book and I am taking great comfort from it at the moment.

Thanks again guys and speak soon

God Bless you (he has already!)

Ian

lyn said...

Hi Ian,
I am glad you are keeping us informed, and I thank God for that. I understand your trying to overcome sin on your own, it is part of the sin nature. Even the Apostle Paul was perplexed about the struggle with sin, struggling with his flesh was bothersome. In Romans 7:15, Paul says this, 'I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate.' verse 18-'For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.' verse 23, 'but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.'
The struggle against the flesh is lifelong, but the power of God prevails in our hearts, and the blood of Christ continually cleanses the repentant born again sinner. This doesn't give us a license to sin; the struggle with the flesh should drive us to our Lord, for mercy, for forgiveness, for strength to overcome.
Ian, you are wrestling with your sinful flesh, but the Lord Jesus Christ is with you. He will cleanse you and strengthen you in His might, go before Him.
We all wrestle with our flesh, this is why I praise God for His grace and mercy. The struggle is sometimes wearisome, but the power of God will always prevail in our lives!
May the Lord be with you Ian, may He bring you to godly sorrow over your sins, which leads you to repent, or turn away from them. May He turn you to Him and cause you to say, 'O blessed Lord and Savior, forgive me, guide me; I surrender my will to yours!'

Ian said...

Hi Jean,
thanks for coming back to me. That is very interesting about Paul that you quoted to me. That is exactly how I see things. If I may though could I say that, that is what I have believed that being saved is about. It is the proverb of the woman about to be stoned for adultery. Jesus saves this woman from death and says "go and sin no more". Am I wrong here? Is being saved sinning no more? Or is it simply believing? Right now after this week God has shown me my sin. I dont want to live a sinful life anymore and I want God to save me from sin. I know he can do this because like Dan I have been searching for a life away from sin for nearly 10 years. I know the spirit of God and Jesus is life free from sin but as you all say God does the choosing. My sinful nature is a judgement on me and lies heavy with me but from Pauls words it seems like this will always be so. Am I wrong here? I woke up this morning and I know my sinful life because God has shown it to me but its like I dont know God. I know sin and I know that I am witness to my own sin as I have been this week more than ever but I dont Jesus. Not truely. And thats why I want to be saved because I want to know God like Jean does and you guys do. Its like I see all the pieces but one part the most important part is missing. There are none blind as those that do not see?

Anyway again thanks to all guys for your time and prayers - they are much appreciated and reciprocated.
Ian.

lyn said...

Ian,
It seems God has revealed to you your own wickedness, no one can understand their sinfulness unless God has made it known to them. Once God reveals this sinfulness, we need to cry out to Him, 'O Lord, have mercy on me. I acknowledge to you my sins, I must turn away from them and submit to the authority of Jesus Christ in my life. Father, help me!!'
Ian, it appears God is moving in your heart, He is drawing you to His Son, Jesus Christ. The death and resurrection of our Lord was for reconciliation of lost sinners to a Holy God. That same power that brought Christ back from the dead is the power that brings us back from the dead. We are spiritually dead until God awakens us...He is awakening you Ian, He is drawing you to Christ. Go to Him, call out to Jesus Christ for the new birth, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the new heart and mind that God gives with this new birth. Ian, call out to Him until He answers, don't get sidetracked or give up. This should be your main focus right now, and nothing else.

When God saves us, we are free from the bondage of sin. For instance, I am no longer a slave to sexual sin, I no longer make it a habit of sinning against God. I am not saying we are perfect and without sin; what I am saying and what the Bible teaches is this...because we are still in the flesh, we will sin, but it isn't a willful type of sin. We don't knowingly daily sin on purpose. Now when I sin, the weight of that sin is heavy on me until I bring it before the Lord, confess it and turn away from it. Before He saved me, I sinned and didn't care two cents about it.
1 John 1:9 says, 'If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.' Again Ian, don't think we have a free license to sin; because we still are in our unredeemed earthly bodies, we will need to confess and repent daily. But, God is rich in mercy, His mercies are renewed each morning. The man who fears God will avoid all extremes. The weightier issues such as this God will make clear to you through prayer and bible study, all in His time frame.
The more urgent need for you is the new birth. This is granted by the Father; you know you are in bondage to sin, you know this sin will keep you from Christ, you know you cannot free yourself. Go to Him Ian, fall before Him and continue to call on Him until He answers you!! He is waiting for you Ian, He's near...

Jean said...

Ian,

From what I see God is drawing you to Himself. You are broken over your sin. God promises to save those who have a broken heart over sin. Jesus did not come for the righteous but for sinners like you Ian. But Ian I can not tell you that you are saved, I can not see your heart, but God can see your heart and your thoughts. I can see a broken man over his sin from what you are telling us. The beauty of our God is this Ian, when He saves you, YOU WILL KNOW! If you have cried out to Him for mercy, and you do not feel He has saved you, may I lovingly suggest this to you:

Cry out to Him even if it means nights without sleep. Cry out to Him Ian, and do not stop until you know that you are saved! Only two things can happen, its either God will not save you and you know you are going to Hell, or the other thing that can happen is, HE WILL HEAR YOUR CRY AND SAVE YOU!

Ian read John 3:16 in your bible. Our God is gracious and full of mercy. Go to Him like a child, helpless and desperate. You have nothing worthy to bring to Him, so go as a new born baby, in need without the ability to care or fend for itself. Ian we are praying for you, the Lord is near! Blessed are the poor in Spirit , for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, Mathew 5:3.

Ian you are broken over your sin, you hate it, you see yourself before a holy God. That itself is God at work, a blind man can not see that. Now there is way that you can be free, and this is the way

God says to you Ian;

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, Acts 16:31

Again I can not give you assurance of salvation, no one can. God Himself will give you blessed assurance when it happens.

Praying for you,

Jean

Marie said...

Ian,

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

- Jesus, John 6:37

You're part of the "whoever". And,

And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

- Acts 2:21; Romans 10:13

Are you calling upon the Name of the Lord to save you? Are you repenting of your sin (which you need the Holy Spirit to do), and turning away from self to Christ? He is faithful to His Word, Ian. He will not forsake you - He will redeem and renew you!

Jean said...

"But I am weak also and I feared I have let God down by not choosing the path I should."

May I just say, we have all let God down Ian, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is not one person on this planet who has not let God down by going their own way. Lyn shared her testimony on this thread, she let God down too by her sin and abomination before Him. I too was the vilest offender, I have shared this before, by the age of 17 I was living in sin and a child was conceived as a result. I then decided to kill this baby by means of an abortion when I was about 3 months pregnant. What I am saying is that Lyn, myself and others who are praying for you are the vilest offenders, we did wickedness before a holy God. But now we can be declared NOT GUILTY by a gracious God. Not because we did anything to deserve grace but because God who is rich in mercy chose to forgive us. Our sin debt was paid on the Cross. Jesus Christ became a man and bore our iniquities. God crushed His only begotten Son, that we can go free. If we repent and trust in Him.

The Apostle Paul also let God down, He persecuted the saints, he too like all of us, was the worst of the worst, but God took him and clothed him in His righteousness, and used Paul mightily for His glory.

The fact that you realise that you have let God down by your wickedness is a wonderful thing! Now turn from sin and trust in Jesus Christ.

Dani' El said...

Ian-
Godly sorrow, and conviction of sin is a very good sign indeed.

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
2Co 7:11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Ian, do you have a good church and pastor you could go to for guidance?
I know in this day, with the great apostasy of the last days upon us, it can be very difficult in some places to find a good church, but this should be something you seek out.
I pray that the Lord would give you discernment, (which you seem to be using already) and guide you to good fellowship.
From personal experience I know this is not always possible, but I guess that's one good thing about the internet, one can find good preaching and teaching from all of history, and although a good church is ideal, one can find fellowship on the internet as well.

Praying for you friend.

Dani' El

Ian said...

"one can find fellowship on the internet as well"

Thanks Dani'El.

It was when I read Jeans post on another site that brought me here. I knew that the person who posted those words was a real Christian.

Having been brought up in the Catholic faith the amount of damage this has done has made me very sceptical of "Christians". I started visiting again a catholic church about 2 years ago but it was basically a political front for various left wing causes and I found myself with the choice of speaking out or getting out. So I chose the latter because it was nice to hear of the Gospels but apart from that it was providing me with very little.

It is a very confusing time for me at the moment and the nature of sin is one that is causing some profound consternation.

Marie thanks for your kind offer but I live in the UK so that is maybe not practical to send anything. I have looked up John Macarthur on the net so will probably order the book Dani'El mentioned.

Thanks to everyone for your prayers and kindness. I will keep in touch.
Ian

Marie said...

Oy. I am an ex-Catholic as well (Irish Catholic, no less; the most severe kind) and my mother often let me know what a disappointment I was for "leaving the religion I was raised in" (I had become a Bible-believing Christian in college). Both of my parents are totally hardened towards Christ.

Check out a recent attack I faced, when I explained that we do not focus on self, but rather on Christ when we worship: http://www.clashofthespoons.com/the-great-commissioning/#comment-320

The animosity and hypocrisy can be unbelievable at times, because they are afraid. Deception by investment is what happens when someone stakes their whole life (temporal and spiritual) around a lie. Deep down, they know that we Christians have the Truth (we read the same Bible, at least in theory), but the stakes of leaving Rome are too high. Ever get into (or witnessed) an apologetics debate with a Catholic? That's when the claws really come out. They know they can't win, so they attack you, often personally and viciously.

I personally believe that some (perhaps many) Catholics are truly saved, but rather in spite of the false doctrine their church teaches. So we have to keep believing the best about all, and witnessing with our lives as well as our words. Just stay strong in your faith and close to Christ, Ian. He will provide you with His own blessed fellowship, as well as bring true Christian friends into your life (as indeed He is already doing). Yes, Jean's blog and others are true blessings!

lyn said...

Marie~ I just wanted to tell you what an encouragement you post was! I will check out your link a little later; you are a blessing sister!

Marie said...

Lyn,

I just visited your blog briefly, and added you to my blogroll. Wonderful stuff; it's nice to see someone as concerned with sound doctrine as you are, without losing sight of your first Love.

BTW, that quote from J.C. Ryle was priceless.

Marie said...

Oh, the link I posted above is not to my blog - it's a blog that a bitter Catholic runs to disprove biblical Christianity and discredit Protestants. Somehow I had surfed in and noted something about evangelicals' church services meeting the same purpose as a self-help meeting, and I simply pointed out that we don't go to be entertained, but rather to worship God. He lit into me with an arrogance I haven't seen since talking to hostile collegiate students nearly 20 years ago. (I actually do feel sorry for the guy).

Needless to say, as he firmly believes in revisionist Romanist history, countering his false assertions would have been fruitless. It was clearly pearl-holding and dust-shaking time.

lyn said...

Thanks for the update Marie. It amazes me how, when you present the truth to Catholics {or any deceived soul for that matter}, they go to great lengths to defend their 'tradition', yet, most cannot tell you why they put ashes on their forehead, they cannot tell you why they give up red meat {answers to both usually are the same, 'it's tradition'}, or why they pray to Mary {even though Christ gave us a model prayer, starting with 'Our Father', not Mary}, or exactly how it is the transubstantiation miraculously becomes Christ. It is heartbreaking to see those embedded so deeply in this false religion. They desire an outward form of religion, one that makes them 'feel religious', yet, inside, they are dead to God.

BTW~ I am glad you liked the J.C. Ryle quote, I have read his book, 'Warnings to the Churches', which is a compilation of his sermons. He speaks frequently against the church of Rome, for example, he says, "No visible church has any right to say, 'we are the true church'. The church of Jesus Christ is made up of all true believers. It comprehends all who have repented of sin, and fled to Christ by faith, and been made new creatures in Him."
If the Roman Catholic could just grasp the meaning of 'grace' and 'gift'; if they could ponder this-- 'made new creatures in Him', and take that to heart; it would blow their false doctrine out of the water. If they could comprehend this, 'if nothing has changed in you since you lay claim to Christ, then your claim is not valid'. Their outward works cannot replace God's inward work.
Much prayer is needed by those of us whom God has been gracious to and saved, for all lost souls!

Tom Mahon said...

lyn said...

>>Thanks for the update Marie. It amazes me how, when you present the truth to Catholics {or any deceived soul for that matter}, they go to great lengths to defend their 'tradition', yet, most cannot tell you why they put ashes on their forehead, they cannot tell you why they give up red meat {answers to both usually are the same, 'it's tradition'},<<

While I would agree that Catholicism is a heresy, I think that you would also have to explain why you observe Sunday worship, instead of keeping the fourth commandment. And why "Christians" celebrate Easter and Christmas, when Jesus was not resurrected on Easter nor ever asked anyone to celebrate his birthday. Could these practices be just "tradition?" Or do you have cogent reason for celebrating them?

Marie said...

As far as Sunday worship goes,one reason is because Christ was resurrected on a Sunday - the first day of the week. Secondly, in Revelation, the apostle John refers to "on the Lord's day" and the inference is drawn from there. Thirdly, Romans 14:1-7 covers the principle of which day one should worship corporately - it's a 'disputable matter' and is covered as such.

As far as celebrating Christmas and Easter (or Resurrection Sunday) goes, both the Incarnation and the Resurrection were incredible gifts of God's grace. Celebrating the events is by no means inconsistent with the spirit of the New Testament.

Jesus was not resurrected on Easter

I'm not sure what was meant by that so I won't touch it. Have a good day, all!

Dani' El said...

Marie,
A heads up on Tom.

He's a prominent member of the Armstrong Cult, the WCG that teaches many heresies.

Ian, I was also raised in the Roman Catholic Church and it had much the same effect on me that it did for you.

Like others here have said, I pray that there is a believing remnant in the RCC that will be brought out to a greater understanding in the coming years.

But I am confident that the RCC leadership, the Vatican and the Pope are 100% the church of Satan working hard to establish the ecumenical one world religion of the false prophet in the last days.

lyn said...

Tom, you need to address look up's question, which you conveniently avoided....from March 3, 14:27...


Tom Mahon said...
Look up said...

>>The only thing godly in anyone is ENTIRELY owned by Christ.<<

***********************************

Isn't that what I stated below?

"When I was in the flesh, yes, I was ungodly. But now that I am in the spirit, Christ has granted to me the gift of righteousness. This paradoxical mystery is in Galatians 2:20 thus: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me..." "For he that is dead is FREE from sin"(Roms. 6:7). If you have been crucified with Christ, then, you are free from sin. For you are no longer in the flesh, but in the spirit."

***********************************

If it were what you meant then you would have no trouble admiting that ALL of Tom Mahon is ENTIRELY ungodly.

Is ALL of Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?


Look up>>We must be humbled BEFORE our sins are forgiven.<<

Tom said...
You obviously made this up, as it is not in the bible! In fact, if your misconceived assertion were true, salvation would be of works rather than grace.

***********************************

I say...

You are taking being humbled as an attribute of man, which it is not. It is work of God by grace leaves a lost person humbled before Him, from where they then can trust Christ as Saviour.

So Tom, have you been humbled?

Is ALL of Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?

or "Have ye forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, and the wickedness of the kings of Judah, and the wickedness of their wives, and your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they have committed in the land of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem? They are not humbled even unto this day, neither have they feared, nor walked in my law, nor in my statutes, that I set before you and before your fathers.

"Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled: But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness."


as for questions you ask me, I will ignore any and every comment by you. move on Tom, no one here is interested in your false Herbert Armstrong heresy. You are divisive and want to stir the pot, there are plenty of blogs out there that cater to the likes of you.

Tom Mahon said...

lyn said...

>>Tom, you need to address look up's question, which you conveniently avoided....from March 3, 14:27..<<

I am sure that if Look Up wants me to answer his or her question, he or she would ask me to do so. You have suddenly appointed yourself as her/his spokesman. It is always much better to speak for yourself!

Why not address my questions about your "traditional" practices? For if you do, you will be surprised to learn that you are no different from Catholics!

Tom Mahon said...

Marie said...

>>As far as Sunday worship goes,one reason is because Christ was resurrected on a Sunday - the first day of the week.<<

Jesus was not resurrected on the first day of the week. If you read the biblical account, you will discover that when women arrived at the tomb as it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, they were told by the angel that Jesus had already risen.

Plus, Jesus said he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. And if he was crucified on Friday, as many falsely believe, and rose on Sunday morning, that would be less than 72 hours in the grave. Check it for yourself.

>>Secondly, in Revelation, the apostle John refers to "on the Lord's day" and the inference is drawn from there.<<

Well, it is a false inference. John was referring to The day of the Lord, that is, the day of Christ return.

lyn said...

you assume much; I never stated I cling to any practices. I never said I observe Easter and Christmas, based on a calendar, or man's tradition.
What I observe and my worship of God is between myself and Him. I refuse to take your 'bait' and get drug off into some pointless debate. You are a follower of a religious cult {the UCG, founded by Herbert Armstrong}, you cannot know truth as the Holy Spirit reveals it until God has worked in your heart. I pray He does.

BTW, I took the liberty of e-mailing 'look up' to let him know you are back, lurking around on Jeans' blog, seeing who you can 'pick a fight with'.

Look up said...

OK Tom, here it is, direct from Mr. 'Look up'.

Is ALL of Tom Mahon entirely ungodly? Yes or no?

Marie said...

Plus, Jesus said he would be in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. And if he was crucified on Friday, as many falsely believe, and rose on Sunday morning, that would be less than 72 hours in the grave. Check it for yourself.

Tom, are you serious? This is apologetics 101 - basic Lee Strobel stuff.

I'm sure you're aware that the Jews considered a new 'day' to begin at sundown. I'm surprised that you didn't realize 'day and night' usage in the Bible can include any part of said day and night - NOT necessarily a 24-hour day.

Christ died on Friday afternoon, as we know from Mark. Sundown marked the start of a new 'day' - Saturday. He was in the grave all that day and nightfall marked the beginning of 'Sunday' (not midnight, as we count it). His resurrection presumably took place in the early hours of the morning (still Sunday, any way you slice it), so YES, by Hebrew reckoning, He WAS in the grave for 3 days. "He rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures".

"A Case for Christ" and I believe "Gotquestions.org" answers this nicely, if you care to dig into it. I'm not making it up - there are actually peeps who study this stuff for a living.

Marie said...

Tom, here you go:

The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the “three days and three nights” could permit a Friday crucifixion."2 This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," (Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days."

Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7, "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? 6"He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, 7saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day."

Therefore, we can see that because of the Jewish usage of counting any part of a day as the whole of the day, the term "three days and nights" is idiomatic and not literal.

[Source: Christian Apologetics Research Ministry]

Dani' El said...

Please don't feed the trolls!

:)

Tom Mahon said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Look up said...

Tom

I don't run this blog, but I am pretty sure if you actually honestly answered that one question I have asked you over and over again, your post would not have been removed. My guess is that until you answer it, all your typing will be in vain.

dora said...

Jean,

You don't have to have a comments section you know.

You can get rid of it any time you wish.

Why subject yourself to needless comments?

If you did get rid of it, most of them would find elsewhere to spew their deadly poison.

Others have got rid of theirs, and it was good for them to do so.

Why not try it for a while?

Just a thought.

Ian said...

Wow you guys have been busy since I last looked in.

Marie we share the same Irish catholic heritage what can I say - that and the Italian version its difficult to make a case for them being a force for good! All those gangsters!

I have tried many times to get my family to "understand" or even discuss Christiantiy but you are quite right in the responses that it engenders. It can get very ugly.

I hope Jean doent take Dora's advice because just coming here in the last 1 1/2 weeks I have learned something very profound.

Until recently I would have responded just as Tom has.
His "Christianity" is based on pride, the pride of "knowing" because God made him, then part of him is God also - ergo (or should be ego!) he is God.

I have now realised the need for a saviour and what the saviours role in my life is as I turn to Jesus Christ and confront this pride of myself. So I cant put a value on what help this has been to me, meeting REAL Christians.

Thank you all very much and God bless you all.

lyn said...

Ian~ your postings cause me to praise Almighty God! None of us have stopped praying for you, and we will not stop. God has shown you much truth, and you have perceived this truth correctly. All that He is showing you and doing in your life is for His glory. Let's always remember to praise Him, He is worthy. Please keep us informed Ian, we all love you and pray to the Lord God for you!


Hi Dora- I am grateful for this comment section. God is to praised, for He has used Jean's blog for His glory, Ian is proof of that! I am sure Jean would agree, all the negativity posted here is worth it if just one soul would be saved!

Marie said...

I also am grateful for the comments section on this particular blog - I've "met" and interacted with some fine believers through here (from both sides of the Atlantic)! We should start our own message board, so we don't have to keep leaving messages on Jean's blog. :)

Ian said...

Apologies is this comes out more than once - had a few probs posting.

I have been going through some profound changes in recent weeks of which this blog has been pivotal.

I have come to know true Christiantiy through the people posting here. Maybe the difference between what Jean has recorded and what I have been trying to say is that I have always "known" God but have through the postings here have come to truely know God workng in my life.

Rather than being saved and being sin free which is what I have wanted but from a prideful perspective, I been shown this prideful nature and that I cannot "give it up" - I must be saved from it.

I am still suffering for my sins, which is good but am also turning away from it. I am being saved from it.

My life is changing so drastically at the moment that the result for me will be that I will be able to live a sin free life - once I have paid my dues. Which is what I have always wanted anyway. My mistake was thinking I could do on my own and being in denial of my true despicable nature - although I knew anyway now I really know it.

Lyn you really touched me with your words - but that is God working in me. Let He be praised.

Marie you may be right. I do feel a little guilty posting on Jeans blog but it was Jean posting on another blog that started all this. So thank you Jean. God was truely working through her.

Jean said...

Dora thank you sister for your advice, it was something I was thinking of already, but after prayer I do not think I will be taking the comments down because I have seen God at work through people posting on this blog. I have also learnt that God works mightily in weakness, so that no flesh may boast, but all glory may go to Him. I posted a blog entry about a dying celebrity, now gradually the comments did go completely out of topic, this was because some brothers and sisters in Christ laboured in sowing seed to one or two people whose hearts we believe were being softened by God. So to sum up, the comments here may appear to be all over the place at the moment, but if God used that to draw a lost sinner, then should we really care about how things appear to people?

I also have found great fellowship through people posting on this blog, I have grown to know some lovely believers and have made wonderful friends from around the globe, that I am so grateful to God for. Some of the comments have been a huge encouragement to me in times of trials, doubt, suffering and loneliness (spiritually) , at one time I thought I was the only believer in the United Kingdom! At one time in my life I knew no other Christians and it was a very lonely time for me, I had no fellowship with anyone at all, so I am grateful for the friends the Lord has given me through this blog. Also through bloggers who post here, I get to read their blogs too, some have been really helpful.

Marie and Ian, as a servant of Christ who is nothing and unworthy of anything, why would I mind you commenting on here if it glorifies the Father?

Ian we are praying for you. Thank God and worship Him, for He who is mighty has done great things for you!

Tommy 3 Lions said...

Jade has now confessed to seeing a reiki healer and a white witch , New Magazine, March issue page 25.
This is not the behaviour of a Christian, some have claimed jade has become a Christian.
She seems to also think having her kids christened will earn her heavenly browny points but it wont, the wages of sin is death!!!
May the Lord send someone to her to minister the Gospel of truth whilst quickening the Word to her that she may repent and find salvation that comes ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY through CHRIST !!!!!

Dani' El said...

T3L,
If that's true, then that's very, very bad news for Jade.
It's not really a surprise given the things she's been saying and doing.

What a shame.
Praying for Jane Goody and her family.