O wretched little girl she is, who will deliver her from her body of death.
First thing in the morning my 4 year old daughter normally says to me, "I am going to be a good girl today mummy". When she says this she really means it, and I can see how she longs to finish even just one day in her life without doing anything wrong. However my daughter knows as well as I do that within at the least an hour of saying she is going to be good, that promise will be broken. Sometimes during the day or before bed, she always asks me if she has been good, and I always try to be as honest as I can with her, and I will tell her what she has done wrong if I can remember. If she has been better than usual I will praise her and tell her. I have never said to her she has been a perfect little girl who has done nothing wrong all day, If I say that to her then I am a liar and I will be doing her more harm than good. I do not believe in teaching children self esteem or that they should feel good about themselves, because they should not. My daughter is a normal 4 year old who loves to play with her dolls and dress up, but everyday she finds that she is doing things that are wrong like doing something to upset her baby brother or not doing what she is told by her mum. So we have a problem, and this is an everyday battle. The problem is sin. I never taught my daughter to sin. This is because she, and as well as the rest of the human race have inherited a sinful nature from Adam. From the moment we are conceived we are sinners, Pslam 57:5. We are born with a desire to sin. We are all born God hating and evil.
However this morning my daughter shocked and amazed me. As usual first thing when she woke up today she said, " I am going to be a good girl today mummy" , and I nodded and said, "OK". She was quiet for a while as if in deep thought then she said, " But mummy, everyday I try and I want to be a good girl, but I can't do it. I can't be a good girl". I didn't know what to say to her at this point so I asked her why she could not do it. " Because there is only one person who can ever help me to be good", she said.
So not knowing where this was going and a little confused by what my daughter was saying, I asked her who it is who would help her to be a good girl, thinking maybe she was going to say me, she said- Jesus. Yes my four year old daughter told me that the only person who would ever help her to be a good girl was Jesus Christ, because she could not do it on her own. I have never told her this. I would have thought this is too deep for a four year old to understand. That she was a sinner, she could not control her sinful nature. She wanted to be good but she could not, instead she did things that where wrong no matter how she tried to be good. Her theology is far deeper than that of many preachers today. I mean she gets it. It is only by the finished work of Christ on the cross that we can be delivered from sin. The righteousness of God is imputed to us when we forsake our sins and believe, 2 Corinthians 5:21. It is Christ who works in us enabling us to do good when we are saved, otherwise all our good works are like filthy rugs before God. She sounded like Paul in Romans 7, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? And she understood the answer, that it is only through Christ that we can be delivered and freed from the bondage of sin. I was so amazed by God's power that I wanted to cry. I have never shared this with her, so how did she know? It can only be the work of the Holy Spirit. For a little girl to know that she can not be good on her own, that there is only one who can help her, that is Jesus is beyond my comprehension. When she said that all I said to her was that she was right. I did not say anything more as I was in shock and I did not want to ruin what the Lord was doing in her heart. I am not saying she got saved, she is only four. But one thing I know God is definitely working in my little girl's life. It encouraged me to pray for her even more. She is a wretched little girl, who knows she is a wretched sinner who needs only a good saviour to help her. Glory belongs to God!




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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 564 Newer› Newest»Jean,
I think I told you this before but want to remind you that I pray that God will take your children and give them to His Son. When you see your prayer's answered in the lives of your children it is so amazing that I do not have words to express it! Our Lord is good and most gracious!!!!
Ike
I have not got the right words because this is too good to be true, so the only thing I can say is I thank God that He led you to this blog, you are a blessing to me.
This is such an encouragement to me as I pray for my grandson to come to his need for a Saviour. Thank you and may God continue to bless your family.
Oh Jean, I am disappointed.
That is only a step away from child abuse.
4 years old and wracked with guilt daily.
"I do not believe in teaching children self esteem"
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear.
"So we have a problem, and this is an everyday battle"
Oh my word.
"She is a wretched little girl, who knows she is a wretched sinner who needs only a good saviour to help her."
Jean, that is terrible. Terrible. It amazes me that you and I who have some things in common can be so polarised, so far apart.
This post is one of the most shocking things I have ever read. And to think that you are pleased about it and want to share it, and to think that other people have written to say they admire you for it. Your poor little girl. If I was the praying kind I'd be praying for her too, right now.
Jean,
I was wondering if you discipline your children with spanking as outlined in scripture.
I'll go a step further than Stew. This [i]is[/i] child abuse. I'll tell you where she gets this from. It's from your diseased delusion of the existence of something for which there is literally no evidence.
This is one of the worst things I've ever read, and it's only a shame that we have no laws to punish you for it. Shattering the innocence of a 4-year-old is a wicked thing for you to do. I hope you come to see the error and work to undo the damage you've done.
Jean, YOU are the wretched vile thing here...
I weep for your children, you evil thing, you!!!
I wonder why you view self-esteem as a bad thing. Confidence in one's self and one's ability is a good thing, yes?
I imagine that you are viewing it as a good thing that your daughter knows that she can't ever be good without the light of Jesus, but, Jean, you're setting your daughter on a terrible path for her life. Should she not feel the confidence to approach any decision without first running it past Jesus? What happens to her in school? Does she pray for the answers, or does she have confidence that she can, using her brain, learn the answers herself? What happens when she gets into the working world?
What happens when she grows up, realizes the horrible mistreatment she's been through, and grows to loathe you? I'm not saying that's a certainty, but it does happen, Jean. Children held the tightest struggle the mightiest to break free.
Assuming for the moment that your belief systems are correct, Jean, that Jesus was real, that he saved the world through his sacrifice and all the rest ... hasn't he already saved us? Wasn't the point of his sacrifice so that we could be forgiven and be good people? Why do we need to ask for his forgiveness if he's already given it to each and every one of us? What is the value of that sacrifice if every day it's needed to be made again and again? Doesn't that diminish the import of Jesus in a real, fundamental way?
I fail to see how a God who encourages people to be miserable is anyone worth paying fealty to. Even if he exists, he seems to seek to earn our contempt at every turn.
Jean, I implore you, please, do better for your daughter. Let her feel happy and confident. Let her believe in herself. It's your duty, your obligation, as her mother, to help her live the best life possible, and I can't imagine that misery is the best she can hope for.
I'll say this, and I won't be the last. This IS child abuse. I hope one day your little girl realizes she is a human being, deserving of love and respect, and overcomes your attempts to make her feel worthless. I hope someone in your area has the good sense to forward this to social services.
I too found this very disturbing. Teaching a sweet child that she is, deep down, evil, is child abuse.
You are abusing that poor girl. I pity her. Where is the Christian love that I keep hearing about.
Actually, never mind Christian love, where is the motherly human love that we all know about?
You are (a) insane, (b) downright evil or (c) possibly both. You are guilty of child abuse and I hope that somebody, somewhere has set the wheels in motion so that the authorities will be knocking on your door tomorrow morning.
One thing you have to realize is that all men are born evil. Evil from a babe. I was born evil and so are you.
Maybe you were born evil, sister, but not me. You have no idea what you are talking about.
At a tender age she is realizing that there is no good in her.
Wow, you don't have a very high opinion of your baby girl, do you? How disturbing to hear a mother say such a horrible thing about her child!
We do worship the god we create in our image.
You are worshiping an evil god.
And you say you studied Mental Health Nursing?
I don't know how anyone with any training in mental health issues could treat a child the way you've described here. Shame on you.
While I respect your right to raise your child as you see fit, teaching her that she is inherently evil but not responsible for her actions is dangerous. Instilling a deep sense of self-worth goes a long way toward preventing future 'sins' and will help your daughter understand that she has control over her decisions and responsibility for those decisions. Teach her to talk to Jesus (or whoever) if you must; instruct her to consider how her actions may be viewed by such a deity but teaching her that she is evil no matter what is laying the groundwork for future developmental problems that neither you, your daughter, nor society wants to handle.
I am an atheist, so I cannot tell you that I will pray for you, but please feel free to contact me to talk anytime. I am open minded and certainly have nothing against religion or those who choose that path of belief. But I am also a mother who understands all too well the difficulties of child rearing. Believer or not, parents need to help one another.
Jean,
All these people commenting on your blog: they've not been sent here by Satan to tempt you into sinning. They've not been sent here by God to test your faith. They've not come here to persecute a Christian.
They've come here because there is a shared, instinctive consensus that the approach you are taking in raising your child is fundamentally wrong. Every parent makes mistakes and no parent is perfect - however, you have to recognize that people are commenting here out of compassion for your daughter, out of love. Please take what they have to say seriously.
If you are right and salvation through Jesus' sacrifice is the only way to eternal salvation, then I'm sure that when your daughter is ready, she'll make a decision to go down that path, and that's as good and well. But she's 4 years old - too young to be contemplating her eternal fate and too young to be worrying about making Jesus weep.
I'm not saying that you should tell her she's perfect or an angel but please, for the sake of your long-lasting relationship with your daughter, please; stop telling her that she is evil.
Matt
I hope you delete these comments Jean
Very sad indeed, poor girl. I hope you guys have enough money to pay for her therapy one day in the future, when she is some paranoid, full of guilt person who did nothing to deserve it. But I just hope against the evidence that your children will be fine and healthy in spite of what you are doing to them.
Now, in regards to her saying what she said... Do you think kids are stupid little robots waiting to be programmed? They are smarter than grown-ups, if anything. You might not have said those things directly to her, but she has picked it up from what you and others say, what you talk about, what your church talks about (do you take her there?), etc. Kids don't learn from what we say to them. They learn by watching our examples.
If you are not joking, I think Richard Dawkins really was right--religion leads to child abuse!I hope you seriously rethink telling your child that she is evil and can never get it right! She is going to end up an emotionally disturbed woman!
Jean, I get the impression that you care about your child and wish the best for her. Your post disturbs me greatly, because I was raised this way and I can tell you that the experience was very damaging to me to the point that I came to hate my parents and I almost did not survive to adulthood. My faith certainly did not survive. I feel the evil effects of their parenting daily, some 6 decades later. Is there a pastor or priest whom you respect you could show this post to? It might be helpful to get a second opinion on a subject this important. Remember, you said all of us are imperfect, and I assume this includes yourself.
Although Ike @ #1 and I obviosly have wildly differing world-views, I have to agree with him to some extent.
I, too, "[hope] that [some authority figure] will take your children and give them to [someone who won't abuse them]."
Umm you should read this thread here.
They've linked to your blog and accuse you of being abusive. I'd recommend you stay away from this kind of controversy.
http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1496253&sid=9cb9ffd745af7cae2ea531cc6c6835c1
blind squirrel,
You don't get it.
That doesn't matter to her. If her child grows up to be a mentally tortured, quivering wreck of a human because of her treatment as a child, that's okay with her. Because she's convinced it's the afterlife that's important.
I could describe to her my little boy; happy, funny, full of life, kind to others with a tremendous compassion for animals -- and it wouldn't matter at all. She'd be convinced he's going to hell for his sins.
Jean, in trying to reject her sins, rejects her humanity.
Child abuse.
Seriously. Get help. Now.
Your daughter doesn't deserve that.
I just wanted to chime in with the rest and say that I, too, was absolutely not born evil. What a bunch of hullabaloo.
You are a brainwashed religious lunatic who shouldn't be allowed to look after a dog, let alone a human child. I am both outraged at you and infinitely sad for the little girl who is at the mercy of your wretched, stinking, evil religion.
You are a brainwashed religious lunatic who shouldn't be allowed to look after a dog, let alone a human child. I am both outraged at you and infinitely sad for the little girl who is at the mercy of your wretched, stinking, evil religion.
There is nothing virtuous in what you are doing here. Your poor children. This poor girl will grow up forever hating herself and believing she can never be good enough for tangible gods in her universe: you and her father. If you really did learn something about mental health then you should be very ashamed of yourself. This is emotional abuse in the least.
Hi,
I'm not here to judge you, this is only my opinion based on what you have stated.
I think you have taken God's Word and instead of being awed and humbled, you've twisted it into something to fear. God does not intend for you to fear Him, but to love in His name.
Teaching fear to your child to this degree is not in her best interest, and I actually think you are rolling the dice with her salvation. Teaching her to do the right thing, like helping those in need, doing the honest thing, thanking God for your blessings, these are things that please Him. If you actually succeed in instilling this fear permanently, her movitation will be because she feels she must always improve or that she is one step in Hell's gate, not because God simply wants her love in return. Straight fearing gets no bonus salvation points.
You need to be careful in what you do and say to people in God's name. Using it as a stick to measure and then beat people with turns them away, and if you do read your Bible, you know what it says about God's anger towards those who use His name and it turns them away.
Instead look at your daughter as a gift. God made you in love and then made another out of you and for you to nurture. To view her as wicked and unworthy of self-love, especially as a God-LOVING woman, is an afront to his generosity. I will pray that you see the true loving light. Go hug your daughter right now and tell her that the only person who ever loved her more that you is Jesus.
Jean,
You have ignored my question three times.
Are you beating these kids?
Do you use physical punishment on them?
If you are, in fact as convicted as you say you are, you would answer my question.
Jean, how far are you from the situation described below:
Dr. Phillip Resnick, who evaluated Yates about three weeks after the June 2001 drownings, said she knew her actions were illegal but didn't know they were wrong because she was trying to save the children from going to hell.
"If she did not intervene and take their lives while they were still innocent, they would end up in hell," he said, testifying as a defense rebuttal witness. "Mrs. Yates knew what she was doing was right for her children."-
I hope you have more sense than mrs Yates.
This is the most flagrantly chilling admission of child abuse that I have ever read. A sick, twisted woman passing that concept onto an impressionable child. This is disgusting. Someone contact social services, that child needs a loving parent.
As for MrFreeThinker, what a laughable pseudonym. You're actively advising censorship of people who are concerned with the welfare of a child. You willingly place yourself to abet this ungodly crime. Free FROM thinking, more like.
I'm shocked. It is abysmal to think that this little girl is being so mentally abused by being undermined in such an emotionally destructive way by one of the very people with whom she should be getting genuine love from. This is child abuse which goes beyond the normal run of the mill guilty upbringing that Christians and other religions tend towards.
I'm a teacher and my wife is a child protection social worker and I would be referring you to social services in a heartbeat if it weren't for the fact that your religion has gone to great lengths to immunise itself from reproach. I hope one day this kind of abuse is stamped out once and for all.
With all the criticism that is coming in, I am actually sad because this was never the intention of this post. Maybe its time for me to comment in response to the criticism.
When I posted this article I had only Christians in mind. I was hoping to encourage christians who have children. As for me being called evil, I am in totall agreement because I was born totally depraved. So depraved that I took my own baby' life by means of an abortion. An inhuman barbaric act that can only be done in the name of evil. So all those who are calling me vile and evil, I can not agree more. The only difference is that I now have the righteousness of God. I am a sinner saved by grace.
Having killed my first baby,I have 3 remaining children. I love them so much and I am a stay at home mum. My manual for being a mother is the bible, my hero in life is the Apostle Paul, and I aspire to be like the Proverbs 31 woman. I can only raise my children the best way I know to be right, in the admonition of God. I may not be the best mother in the world, but I am using the authority of scripture to raise my children.
Jean, what you are doing is wrong.
Your daughter is not wretched and evil she is being a normal child. She is not sinning, she is being a 4 year-old.
Waging a constant battle to get your children to reach an unrealistic ideal is not good for any of you. If your daughter starts each day stressing over the fact that she will again fail to reach your impossible standards of perfection then you are damaging her sense of self-worth and self-confidence. These are essential to development, not the road to self-indulgent ruin as you seem to think.
I see you have simply dismissed all previous criticism of your actions as the words of the lost and perished. Please consider the dangers of a closed system of thought that has been made immune from all opposing views. There are many devout believers who would be appalled by your approach. You accept that you are far from perfect, so you must permit the possibility that you have not selected the correct interpretation of scripture. If this is possible, how will you ever discover your error if all contrary views can be dismissed so easily?
You clearly deeply regret an early decision that cannot be undone. Please seriously consider the possibility that you are wrong again now, before you make further mistakes that will be impossible to take back.
It is not your name and reputation that is at stake, it is your children's well-being. Your interpretation of the Bible is not a reliable guide to child-care.
Jean,
I have been away from your blog for a while and it is interesting seeing all the comments!??
These people are clueless to how your post was so positive for your daughter. They have absolutely no understanding about total depravity. If they are told that they, (outside of Christ), hate God...they would say that is not true! And to them..........it is not true because they do not hate the god of their imagination BUT they DO hate the God of the Bible.
I won't waste my time trying to argue with people who....(outside of Christ).....are incapable of understanding, but find it interesting that they would "claim" child abuse to a mother who cherishes God's grace in her life and desires for that grace to become a reality in her children??
I thank God that my parents raised me pointing "ME" to two great days........the day the Son of God hung on a cross before sinners....AND, the day all sinners will stand before the Lord Jesus Christ!!! On that day.....self esteem will have absolutely nothing to do with eternity!!
May God richly bless you,
Ike
P.S. "Your best friend in life tells you the most truth" Paul Washer
You are doing more damage to your little girl now, than you did when you aborted a fetus. You are destroying a young child's ability to feel safe and secure in the world; indeed in the presence of her own mother. It is indecent for a child's first thoughts of the day should be about being good enough to avoid an imaginary hell. It is appalling that you have given her the impossible task of being perfect while simultaneously informing her she is evil and the task can not be accomplished without your imaginary friend.
You are committing horrible child abuse! And you're proud of it. I fear for your children's psychological health, and sincerely wish this could be reported to social services.
If you as an adult want to believe that you were born evil to give you relief from the responsibility for your actions, that is your right. Selfish and irresponsible, but yours to decide. But you have no right to inflict fear and self-loathing on defenseless children. It is unfortunate that religion is not seen for the institutionalized brainwashing cultism that it is.
Jean.
Please give your children to me.
This might seem radical, but I believe that it's th only way to save you both. You are under a massive delusion, which you feel only a supernatural entity can save you from. The problem is that your supernatural entity almost certainly doesn't exist. Even if this entity exists, it is highly unlikely, in light of the evidence, that you have chosne the right god. Even if you have, and your god is all you say he is, you are destined for eternal torture.
Let me explain:
If, as you suggest, god actually exists (and I mean your particular god, out of the 30,000+ gods that humans have ever believed in), and he is the benevolent deity your faith suggests him to be, then you are simply fighting against his will by inflicting upon your poor, innocent child, your delusion of what god means.
Your daughter is something you should cherish, including the naughtiness, because you will not get another chance at this most blessed of times.
Please come and join us at www.richarddawkins.net/forum so that you can begin to see the full picture.
My mother was raised in an environment such as the one that is being provided, by you, for your daughter.
Nobody is born evil, and evil is, in fact, a human construct. What you are suggesting is that god made us sick and commanded us to be well. Do you not see the illogic in this?
Do you really believe that loading your child up with guilt is going to save you? You are mistaken, misguided, and cruel. There is no other way to describe what you are doing to your child(ren).
Let me take your children. They will be raised to believe that people should be treated with respect. They will be taught the golden rule (which has nothing to do with your magic man). They will be raisded to be balanced individuals with all the life skills necessary to help to change the world for the good of all, and to treat the truth as something sacred.
I do not know where you are, but I suggest we meet. You can reach me at the forum details above.
I don't care about your belief in an unsupoorted proposition, only the lives of your children.
Please don't throw your life (your children, for that is what they represent) on this nonsense, I implore you. Your life, and theirs, is much too important to waste on the concepts of sin. Sin is a catchword, nothing more. The real evil is your attitude toward your beautiful children.
In the event that you do not take up my offer, I only ask that youo think of this:
The only imperative that is built into you is the imperative for your genes to survive. If you turn your children into quivering wrecks (which you stand every chance of doing), the end result will be to turn your children away from you. If that doesn't happen, then your children will be turned into zombies. I have seen this damage firat hand.
Remember, one of your children may grow up to cure cancer. This can never happen if they are afraid of every decision, which is the path you have put them on.
Please! Think of the future. Your god is unproved, and almost certainly does not exist.
Peace and love,
Tony
Concerned parent,
Manchester
UK
There is an issue here that is consipicous by its abscense, and that is Jean's husband.
Jean, does he discipline you when you sin?
Dear Jean
Like Blind Squirell I have been subjected to almost exact upbringing you inflict upon your child right now. Some of the commenters already mentioned the fact that it is your child well-being at stake not your reputation. I can't disagree more... It's not about her well-being it's about HER LIFE. How do I know that? Possibly because I already made few suicide attempts myself. Being a complete insecure approval seeking misfit and outcast (ab)used by many who asked for my help then treated me like a doormat, life is unbearable. I would love to turn back the time and slap my mother's face to wake her up when I was still young and so vulnerable... but I can't. Instead, every day I wake up, I start my daily struggle to live, fighting with my obsessive perfectionism and extremely low self-esteem that doesn't allow me even to keep friends - I am inherently convinced I won't be good enough for them. So I (barely) live my life of an outcast who pretends that everything in his life is fine and it's only his choice to live like that. I had to move to another country and start my life from beginning to run away from my loving and caring religious mother and her life guidance. I still call her every (it's been 3 years now) and pretend that everything is fine becuase I don't want to hurt her. But the truth is that I hate her at least as much as I love her. I know I won't change my mother (already tried) becuase she says she is happy the way she is... the problem is she doesn't want to see how much pain her upbringing brought to me and my siblings. My brother is currently in a very abusive relationship with his girlfriend - he raises her child and pays for everything but she doesn't want to have another child... she had found a sucker who is happy that he can be a good Christian and help her even though she gives nothing in return. My sister have just started her College... and I see (or rather hear on the phone) what is she going through (crying every time I call her) after she moved out of my mother's "godly" protection to the real world... and I am powerless... I can't help her, she is so convinced she is doing everything right (just like in the bible).
If you believe in God than you will understand that nothing happens without a reason, maybe this time your post and all the comments are God's way to tell that you are making huge mistake.
Someone said once: "Religion either makes men wise and virtuous, or it makes them set up false pretenses to both"... Be wise and revise the way you bring up you children, be virtous enough to accept we all make mistakes but your children are to precious to make pretenses to know what is right for them. Bless you
Sorry, something went a bit pear-shaped in ym last post. It was not meant to be anonymous. This for clarification of my identity.
If you want more, please contact me.
Doesn't England have freedom of religion? Why not shut down all the great reformed churches in England because this is what they teach in Sunday School??
Let me get this straight from all you guys worried about child abuse. You are saying that a mother does not have the right to bring her child up in a Christian home because she is teaching her child what the Bible teaches? You got to be kidding me. You also are worried about this child's "self esteem"? When this little girl experiences the grace of God through faith in Christ she will know that she is "perfect" in Christ. She will know a "love" beyond words. She will be able to love others with "real" love. She will be able to experience a "peace" that is beyond anything you can imagine. She will be more "secure" than all the money in the world. And in the end this little girl will enter an eternity with the One who made it possible.
The sad thing about this nonsense is that I see the same left wing loonies doing this very thing in my country....America. The terrorists are the victims and George Bush is the bad guy. Our public schools can embrace and must embrace the right of homosexuals but you better not talk about Jesus because that would violate seperation of church and State. Take the crosses off all federal buildings and remove "In God we trust" from our currency????? Isn't it funny how all this is directed towards "Christianity"???? Everybody gets freedoms and rights but for heaven sakes lets take them from the Christians??????
I bet if it were possible to investigate everyone of you who are so worried about "child abuse", that you absolutely have no priblem with the right of a woman to have an abortion, but when it comes to raising a child up to be a "Christian" you hate it because you hate christianity period! You are the biggest phonies of all!!!!
Angry American
Renee you should check your facts. At the American constitutional convention the delegates there made public declarations of their religion. 3 were deist , 1 was undeclared and all the rest of the 55 were Christians.
"In god we trust" was on US coins since 1864 (long before communism).It was true that it did become the official motto in the 50's though.
Bringing someone down so they feel helpless and then just as they are about to give up they are offered a 'way out' of that feeling is a classic manipulation technique. This is why most religions have similar ideas. It's the simplest way to lock devotees into them, because they feel so good compared to the start when they felt horrible. Believing that's how life is, without the religion is how they are kept in. This of course works best when it's performed on young people, as they don't have the critical thinking needed to fight it. Once a system like this is in place it's very VERY hard to break as evidenced by this, as it is passed on through the generations. I'm sure Jean truly believes she is right because all she can see without religion is the emptyness she remembers feeling before being 'saved'. An emptyness that most non-religious people never experience.
you are a sick sick woman.
I am an elementary school teacher. We know, we see, that children who have no self-confidence, cannot learn. If they believe they can't do anything right, then they can't. We sometimes have to search for things to praise them for (always honestly!), to build them up so that they can begin to function well socially and begin to learn.
Jean,
Does your husband discipline you with physical punishment?
Hey "froggie" do you have a horse and buggy in Pa.?????
Well, you're somewhat right, Mr. "Freethinker", I was referring to the major dudes, many of whom were sort of vaguely Christian but didn't belong to any particular sect or identified as "Episcopalian" but only in the vague sense that most people believe in at most one God (I suppose I could cover my butt by quoting Monty Python, Roman Soldier: "One God?? That's practically atheism!"
But they were extremely clear about the separation of Church and State and why it was necessary. Evangelicals seem to forget that it is how we act that matters, now how we worship - if if we even bother to do so.
Jean, I'll just point you to this sketch about the dangers of taking the Lord's name in vain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYkbqzWVHZI
PS: Stop abusing your kid!
Froggie, it's OK as long as he uses a stick that's no bigger than his thumb. Or wait, what religion are we talking about again? I always get mixed up about which ones allow you to beat who when and with what.
Renee,
Sorry, I forgot that rule, and I have been using a broom handle on my wife.
***froggie heading out to find the proper switch to use on my kids***
You are an evil, despicable, disgusting woman. The very idea of drumming into a 4 year old that she is worthless!!
I hope you know that there is a discussion on Richard Dawkins' website about finding out who you are and reporting you to the child protection authorities.
You've already been reported to the NSPCC. I hope they find you and remove this child from your 'care'.
You evil, evil woman!!!
..."and I will tell her what she has done wrong if I can remember...."
Please read 1 Corinthians 13:4-6
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
I know a parent that raised her child the way you and and they grew up to hate themselves so much that they started self-mutilating and ultimately took their own lives because they felt they had no worth.
You are ruining your children. They will never become competent adults because of you. They will never feel like they are worthwhile, loved, human being that deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. They will end up in therapy for years for the damage you are doing to them. You are a hyperreligious monster that is completely out of control. You are teaching them they are worthless sacks of crap and feel righteous in doing so. I agree, the fetus you aborted ended up better off then your other children. At least that one was spared a mother who cares more about scoring points to get into heaven then she does about her own children's mental health and well being.
hi Jean,
its a real blessing to see that your child is getting this kind of awareness at such a young age. praise God for this. I really don't know how you teach your kids, but somehow she heard the gospel from you unintentionally? That God eventually worked in her heart.
we pray that God would bring her to salvation so that you are not alone in your household.
don't be surprised at the offensive comments you got. its supposed to be this way. they need to see that their god is their self-esteem. and that our God is the God of the Bible.
the 1st temptation, and usually the most effective tactic of Satan was telling Eve that they will become like god (Genesis 3:5) which is synonymous to getting a healthy self-esteem. and that temptation is still at work in most of us (as we can see thru the comments). Their god is their self.
"...their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ" Philippians 3:19-20
And with that principle (becoming like God) instilled in our minds, Satan was called the father of lies.
"When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44
Satan was called the father of lies because we will never become like God. Therefore self-esteem in itself is a direct spit at God's face. Not only is it a lie and a false hope, but it also is a direct blasphemy towards God who created the heavens and the earth. The reason why they are offended, because their god is being offended. and their god is their stomach.
You really don't know where she got the idea of Jesus? You seem to be all about reading the bible and talking about sin, she lives with you after all, I'm sure she picked it up somewhere along the way. Look into child psychology and growth and development. I guess she couldn't find any other way to please you so she found Jesus...hallelujah, it's a bloody miracle, you are proud. It worked. Now she can go on to believe she is a worthless sinner...as you always dreamed.
Hi Jean,
when the Jews were scratching their heads wondering why they could not understand the words of Jesus, this was His reply:
"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
The Jews answered and said to Him, "Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a DEMON?"
Jesus answered, "I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me."
John 8:43-49
If Jesus, the Son of God, was called to be a demon-possessed...how much more of us?
keep your faith in Jesus. it is from Him that you get grace and peace in the middle of the storm.
@Warren:
If you honestly believe it's a good idea for you to abuse children and revel in them making them hate themselves, then you're morally bankrupt and should be sterilized.
My manual for being a mother is the bible
Really, would that include killing your children if they worshiped other "gods"? (Deut 13:6-10).
You were not born evil - no one is. The bible has made you "evil". I pity you, but not as much as I pity your child.
Incidents like this remind me why I am an antitheist.
Mr freethinker - what you scared about? Perhaps deep down inside, you know this is disgusting?
Oh, as for your "miracle" of awareness about jeebus, I suspect you have let some other fundie abuse her and indoctrinate her (if haven't actually done so yourself)
I was taught as a child about Jesus, the sermon on the mount, and how he loved children as his own, that all are INNOCENT in his sight. What faith have you that you follow a queer isolated piece of Psalms? You do realize that Jesus destroyed the temple, thus he destroyed some of the old laws? Christ shed his blood for the salvation of all believers. That DID AWAY with having to be perfect and having to keep the old laws. The best that you can do is have faith and try to act as Jesus did. JESUS WOULD HAVE NEVER TREATED A CHILD AS YOU DO! Please, read your bible AGAIN. Stop listening to the crap you hear in your church, and read the bible for yourself. You will see that your instilling in your child a self-hatred and defeat is nothing short of abuse.
Wow. -this has reached all the way to finland
http://tiede.fi/keskustelut/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34907&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
When she's older, I want you to find a copy of Soldiers of Paradise, Sugar Rain, and The Cult of Loving Kindness, all by Paul Park for her, OK?
I'm ashamed you call yourself Christian. You've completely disregarded Christ's lessons and have taken the worst out of the Bible and made it the rule of your life. You've decided you're going to hell and are going to drag your poor, innocent daughter with you. Well I can promise you that hell is where you're going unless you repent the evil you're doing, take control of your life and help fix in your daughter what you're trying so hard to destroy.
Jean, you say that your daughter is a wretched sinner, because "we are all born God hating and evil". I, like others, would like you to reconsider this idea, because it is not Biblical. Jesus said in Luke, chapter 18, "Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God."
Consider this, Jean; if children are evil and sinful, how can the Kingdom of Heaven be made of such?
Jesus also said (in Luke), that it is better for a person to have a millstone tied about their neck and be thrown into the sea than to cause one of these little ones to come to sin. You invite the anger of the Lord when you teach your child that she cannot love herself, because without that love, without self-esteem, she can never fully love the Lord, and that is a great sin indeed. My prayers are with you.
"I do not believe in teaching children self esteem"
Self esteem is a good thing. What's wrong with encouraging your child. Children need encouragment. If a young girl has low self esteem she could suffer from depression, or worse, anorexia.
"She is a wretched little girl, who knows she is a wretched sinner who needs only a good saviour to help her."
She's not a "wretched little girl". You are a wretched mother. The only thing she needs a savior from is you.
Child Protection Services has been notified of this blog. I am utterly horrified at your misconduct towards your daughter, and I feel nothing but contempt for you and your ilk!
Please can someone explain to me the virtue of mentally scarring a child for life by indoctrinating her or anyone else for that matter into thinking that she or they are wretched?
The subject of sin is something that makes me appalled that this is still the practise in the 21st Century.
You are teaching this child your own version of Stockholm Syndrome
(Taken from Wikipedia)
Stockholm syndrome is a psychological response sometimes seen in an abducted hostage, in which the hostage shows signs of loyalty to the hostage-taker, regardless of the danger (or at least risk) in which they have been placed. The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg, Stockholm, Sweden, in which the bank robbers held bank employees hostage from August 23 to August 28 in 1973. In this case, the victims became emotionally attached to their victimizers, and even defended their captors after they were freed from their six-day ordeal.
Your religion has taken you hostage, its ideals and diktats have gone out of their way to be as horrible as they possibly can by making you think you are worthless and wretched to the extreme. Somehow you think this a good thing and offer all your love to this supposed deity - the more your god makes you feel bad the more you love him for it.
You cannot defend this horrible thing you are doing to your child and yourself. This is dangerous to the extreme - you are NOT worthless, you are NOT a sinner and neither is your daughter or anyone else.
So were you or your daughter involved with the Garden of Eden incident? Did you have any say in that matter or was it the work of the omniscient deity you are in thrall of?
Were you present at Jesus's crucifixion? No you were not - so please explain to me how any of this is your or your daughter's fault?
I don't for a second think the Eden story is true neither do I think Jesus ever existed - I have evidence to prove both of those comments should you require it.
But think about it for a second - before Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge do you think they had the mental capacity to understand what they were doing was bad? Why did God let Satan into the garden?
Secondly, do you know what a scapegoat is?
(Sorry for using Wikipedia but I am only using definitions to prove a point)
Since this goat, carrying the sins of the people placed on it, is sent away to perish [1], the word "scapegoat" has come to mean a person, often innocent, who is blamed and punished for the sins, crimes, or sufferings of others, generally as a way of distracting attention from the real causes.
The story of Jesus is similar and by no way is it moral or reasonable to think that by piling all your guilt and misery is going to help you lead a better life.
Please don't do this to yourself or your child, neither of you deserve such unnecessary fear and misery inflicted upon you, life is too precious and worth so much more that - living in fear of something you cannot see, hear or touch is not a virtue, its mental cruelty.
The people who indoctrinated you into believing this are the true "sinners" in all of this, I would be interested to see if you could prove me wrong on that front, I really would be.
Warren-
"Therefore self-esteem in itself is a direct spit at God's face".
And to think that believers claim that atheists are miserable and nihilistic!
I think you are trying too hard for your daughter after your previous experiences. Unfortunately you appear to have gone too far the other way as suggested by most of the posters. A second opinion may be a wise decision in this case as the bible can be read many different ways.
My dear Jean,
Please read 'A History of God' by Karen Armstrong. Believe nothing bad will happen if you do this, you will not burn in the eternal flames, you will merely have the scales fall from your eyes and begin to understand the terrible fraud that has been perpetrated on you. When you have read that go on to read more of the modern research that has been done in the fields of astronomy, archaeology, biology, geology, physics and neuroscience etc and start to understand and live this amazing experience of life those of us so lucky to have been born alive and against all the odds stacked against us are fortunate to have.
Live it to the full, without the fear and terror you are experiencing now. Let your daughter grow up happy, loving and loved. You and she have not existed for 4 billion years, your life will cease again in but a very short space of time and you will cease to exist for another unknown billion years. Is this really how you want to experience this incredible spark of life, which lasts but a mere eyeblink in the great eons of time which stretch out behind us and in front of us?
You need to stop feeling so guilty for the abortion you had when you were younger, which all this angst stems from and give your daughter a cuddle.
MY heart goes out to you and I hope you can free yourself from the dreadful mindset of slavery you have inflicted upon yourself, for your daughters sake.
I am a Christian. I can honestly say, that yes, I do make mistakes a lot of the time. However, I am seventeen. By now, I should know better. On the other hand, my little cousin Ronny, who is two, is not expected to. Why? She does not have the understanding and if I told her everyday she was evil, had done nothing right, I would hate myself. Possibly even wish to go to Hell. Ruining another person in the name of God is a terrible, terrible thing. Making a child cry out in misery and pain (Which I'm sure your baby girl does on the inside, or will do in the future) is the WORST sin I can think of.
I hope you find the TRUE face of God;
Love, compassion, and forgiveness for all things.
I wonder if Jean realizes what can happen to a girl brought up believing she's worthless. Many times they become sexually promiscuous at an early age. You know...looking for that approval her zealot mother never gave her. Lets hope not. Poor, poor child.
Dear Jean,
I am sorry, but I do not see the virtuous woman in you. All I see is the harm you are doing your children.
When we are born, we are born tabula rasa. We have a genetic predisposition to certain things, but the environment we grow up and are raised plays a very important role.
And after reading how you are raising your children I am shocked and appalled. This is child abuse.
I feel sorry for you and for your children.
Jean,
You are not a virtuous woman. You are just a sorry, pitiful excuse for a mother.
Your kids are going to grow up to hate you, most likely turn to drugs and promiscuity and whatever else they think can give them the love and comfort you never did.
You are the wrecker of the lives of children. If there is a God, and a hell, I hope you roast there for what you are doing to these kids.
If you look deep enough you will discover that the true source of strength and wisdom to carry on in this world was within yourself alone. Give yourself all the credit.
Jean, we haven't met but I did leave a comment earlier on this site concerning your little girl and the encouragement it brings to me as I pray for my grandson to come to know his need for a Saviour. I'm so sorry for the abuse that you are going through as you proclaim to the world that we are born needing forgiveness that only Christ can give and without that forgiveness and His righteousness we are headed straight for Hell as the Bible plainly says. What you are saying is THE GOSPEL. Take comfort that Jesus warned us that the world would hate us. I will continue to check your site so I can pray for the Lord to keep you strengthened.
Beth
What a great story, Jean! Look at the response the truth provoked from all these wretches in self-denial. Stay encouraged, Jean. R.C. Sproul said that before we accept criticism, we should consider the source. I wouldn't take jumpshot advice from a person who hates basketball and has never played it before. The same could be said about accepting advice about love from these people who believe that the transgression of the law of love is alright and have never believed in Jesus. You're in my prayers, Jean.
Great post! All these atheistic comments are evidence of man's total depravity. Turn on comment moderation quick!
God bless,
Micah
The truth that this is blatant child abuse and has been reported to the authorities. I am so sorry that people out there are so mentally ill that they would actually cheer on the mental and emotional abuse of small children in the name of God.
I am truly left wondering at the atheist internet network. Do people truly live their lives in such a fashion as to sit around behind keyboards waiting to be told where to run to so as to spew their hatred of God on this blog or that combox? Is this life? My, how utterly sad, and yet how utterly instructive of the mindset of atheism and secularism.
Notice the refrain: "child abuse!" I will tell you what child abuse it. When you do not discipline your children, that is child abuse. When you rob your children of the dignity of being made in the image of God, that is child abuse. When you tell your children they are the chance result of the toss of the cosmic dice, animals with no purpose, no transcendent value, that is child abuse. When you do not model for them the true roles of father and mother, man and woman, related properly and acknowledging God's rulership in all of life, that is child abuse. When you do not call sin evil, and give confused definitions of what is good, honorable, just, and beautiful, that is child abuse.
I was a similar age when I came to know what sin was, that God was just, and that Jesus took my place. I firmly believe I was changed at that age, born again, and to this day I am thankful for the teaching of my parents' and their proclamation to me of truth.
But get used to the kind of harangues one sees in this thread. As Western culture comes more and more under God's wrath, and as He lifts His hand of restraint, we will see more clearly than ever the truth of the total depravity of the human race. May God make us strong in the face of such hatred.
Jean,
You are sinning against God by doing this. Your daughter is four and you obviously don't understand her psychology at all. By telling her she is wicked and by convincing her she is so pitiful, you are setting her up for failure. Four-year-olds don't understand "But's" and so she won't understand "But God will save her".
Later on, when her self-esteem is shattered because of your insults, she won't be able to do God's work. She won't think she can. Because her mother told her she can't.
She's only four. Anything she believes right now doesn't matter. Because at that age she is innocent. She doesn't know the difference between right and wrong. And that's what you should be teaching her. You don't teach her she's wicked because she won't understand. She hasn't been alive long enough.
I will pray for your daughter, that someone will show her that God made her special and that she can overcome. And I will pray for you, that will see the error of your parenting. And if you can't, then I hope a good family will take her in and teach her the right way.
What you're doing now is disgusting. You need to change. There is nothing Godly about telling a four-year-old what you have told your four-year-old. Nothing. It is verbal abuse.
Jean,
I am not going to call you evil as others have. I know that you are trying to do what you think is best for your children. However, I plead that you re-evaluate your current views and practices because I do sincerely opine that you are causing mental damage and anguish that is undue on an innocent child (and I believe that the evidence rules in my favor). Maybe you could read the testimonies of those who have been brought up this way and who are both for and against these methods of child-rearing and that would help you to better understand whether or not this method is appropriate.
If you are going to raise your children as Christians, that is your decision and your right, but you do not have to take such a hard-line approach in terms of sinning. Do you not think that thinking that you and your children are innately good and that trying to do your best and confessing to God when you do make mistakes is a sensible approach?
Anyway, I hope that I have at least inspired you to try to think a bit harder about what you're doing and its consequences.
What you are doing to your child is wrong. You make the excuse that you are Christian and are trying to act as such. That is a pathetic excuse. Perhaps you do love your child, but no matter how much you think you are helping, what you are doing to this little girl is mental abuse. How does not teaching her self-esteem help her? Yes, we are all sinners. It is impossible for us to be perfect. But if a 4-year-old girl is taught that she can never do things right, no matter how hard she tries, how does this help her in the long run? If she believes that she can never do right anyway, then what will stop her from no caring if she sins? Why would she care if she is constantly reminded that she can never really be a good little girl. You are damaging this child, and you should end what you are doing before she is damaged beyond repair. It is one thing to teach a child to love God and their faith. It is another to destroy their self-image.
I actually think your barking mad and an unfit mother, your kids will grow up to realise that and hopefully cut you out of their lives. They would be better off adopted out to a family who will love them in a normal way, you are a child abuser and dont deserve them, shame on you.
This is about half a step up from Stephan King's Carrie.
Good luck.
It seems to me that you are deliberately effecting the systematic destruction of this child's soul.
I don't know that I can think of anything more evil than that.
More evil? Try the random comments from anonymous jerks who neither know the family, understand the circumstances, nor believe in Christ. How about practicing some real tolerance and be kind?
You don't this woman, and have no idea how she truly treats her child. We who believe the Bible understand that our esteem is found not in our sinful selves in but Christ alone.
Stop badgering this woman anonymously and deal with the content of the message of Scripture. Don't like it? Go make your own blog.
I am a Christian, and do believe in Christ.
I still believe that the way this woman claims to treat her child(ren) is despicable.
But you are at least partly correct; I should perhaps modify my comment: continual physical torture of a child (or any living being) is also evil.
If you truly are a Christian then you must acknowledge what Scripture says about all mankind, that we are wicked sinners in desperate need of a Savior from the coming wrath of God.
There is "no good thing" dwelling within us, even little children, that God sees and saves us based upon, rather, it is solely based upon His loving kindness and grace that He saves any of our rebellious species.
This woman is acting directly in line with what Scripture teaches about mankind, including little children.
You do not know this woman personally, you do not know what happens in her life on a daily basis, yet you and the others make judgments and rude comments after reading a blog post directed not about the treatment of children, but about the total depravity of all mankind, something clearly expressed in the comments many have posted here.
This blog post is a beautiful example of how to teach humility to a child, rather than pointing to their selfish, sinful, inner-self for guidance, point them to the perfect loving Savior in whom we have salvation from the wrath of God.
What is truly sick, truly wrong and truly abuse, is that numerous anonymous posters and behind-the-keyboard-bravado filled people think they have the right to tell a gentle Christian woman that she is abusing her child, that she has a "diseased delusion", that the God you claim to believe in is "evil", that she's sinning, and the like. All these vile comments from many who, in their world-view, shouldn't give a rat's knuckle about children, much less Christians.
What purpose does "self-esteem" serve in a naturalistic world view anyway? According to most of these folks we're just worm food and the effects of random chance mutation. Why do they care about the offspring of that?
Their self-imposed pontificating is further evidence that Scripture is correct when it says that their "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING, MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS".
Such is the pattern of mankind apart from the grace of God and the indwelling Spirit.
This is the kind of tolerance these people want, where Christians are attacked and atheism reigns unchecked.
@ anonymous:
"Our public schools can embrace and must embrace the right of homosexuals but you better not talk about Jesus because that would violate seperation of church and State."
Are you trying to say that acknowledging the right of homosexuals to exist is actually a violation of the separation of church and state? If not, why are you stringing these two things together? It, like most of what you said, does not make sense.
"Take the crosses off all federal buildings and remove "In God we trust" from our currency????? Isn't it funny how all this is directed towards "Christianity"????"
What other religious symbols are on our currency? Take them off too. Oh right!
"Everybody gets freedoms and rights but for heaven sakes lets take them from the Christians??????"
Having your religious symbols on currency and federal buildings is a right? That is an ignorant thing to say. What rights are being taken away from Christians? As was evidenced in California last week, Christians are the ones taking right away.
"When this little girl experiences the grace of God through faith in Christ she will know that she is "perfect" in Christ. She will know a "love" beyond words. She will be able to love others with "real" love. She will be able to experience a "peace" that is beyond anything you can imagine."
Your use of quotation marks is ironically appropriate.
I'm an athiest. I'd just like to get that out of the way.
I think that some of these commenters are overreacting. I don't exactly agree with you letting your daughter believe that she can't do anything good on her own, but I would never consider this child abuse. I hope you talk about your religion with your daughter, so that she understands that it isn't that she can't do anything right, but that God/Jesus will forgive her as long as she tries to do right.
I personally believe that all people are born good, or at least with the potential to be good, and I think you need to make sure your daughter knows that you love her and will love her even if she can't be literally perfect.
And "wretched" is a bit harsh for a little girl, don't you think? She tries very hard to be good, and that's all a parent should want from their child.
Lockheed-
"There is "no good thing" dwelling within us, even little children, that God sees and saves us based upon"
Read that comment slowly, and you will understand why many commenters on this thread think that what Jean is teaching her child is wrong. Consider also that several of the commenters are Christian, which suggests that the issue is not as clear-cut as you would perhaps like it to be.
"This blog post is a beautiful example of how to teach humility to a child"
There is a difference between teaching humility and crushing self-esteem, and it seems, from her own words, that Jean may be skirting very close to the line. I would also question how well a child of 4 can be expected to understand the issues involved, when it is clear from this thread that they provoke bitter dissent among adults, Christians included.
"What purpose does "self-esteem" serve in a naturalistic world view anyway? According to most of these folks we're just worm food and the effects of random chance mutation. Why do they care about the offspring of that?"
I must assume that you were angry when you wrote the above words, since I am sure you are aware that they are untrue. Perhaps it is the case that your passion got the best of you, which is perfectly understandable.
Evolution is not "random chance mutation", and those that accept the reality of evolution do not regard everyone as "worm food". They do not love their friends and family any less. I am sure you know people who accept evolution: would you genuinely say that they do not have self-esteem, or do not encourage it in their children?
"This is the kind of tolerance these people want, where Christians are attacked and atheism reigns unchecked".
Atheism is merely an absence of belief in God, gods and the supernatural. It has no creed or tenets, therefore it cannot "rule" anything.
you are a sick and deranged person who will no doubt reap all the benefits of an emotionally disturbed and potentially dangerous daughter the rest of her life. but i would never wish for a mother to be separated from her child... what is important is that you lose your JOB!!
you have NO business attempting to guide the mentally ill with such dangerous delusions in your own mind. seek help NOW, the expensive kind.
Jean, I can only hope this post is some misguided attempt at bragging, and not an accurate reflection of your approach to parenting. If it is, then it's downright heartbreaking. You are so caught up in your own narcissistic, delusional frenzy of self-flagellation - which you somehow mistake for "virtue" - that you are teaching your own four year old daughter that she is a "wretched sinner."
Nobody's asking you to tell your daughter that she's perfect or that she can do no wrong. Nobody's asking you to let her do anything she wants or give her anything she wants. Nobody's asking you not to discipline her when she misbehaves (although I, for one, certainly hope that your discipline doesn't involve physical violence, although I rather suspect that it does). All we're asking you to do is give up this poisonous conviction that your daughter is innately evil (a conclusion you've reached based on a poem in a book of Bronze Age myths) and see her for what she really is: a child who desperately craves your love and approval.
Yes, like all children of her age, your daughter can probably be whiny, demanding, and just plain frustrating. That doesn't mean she's a sinner and she needs to humble herself before your imaginary Sky Tyrant; it means she's four and she needs firm, consistent rules, opportunities to socialize with other children her age (is she in nursery school or a playgroup?), and above all, parental love.
But, you know, maybe it's just as well that you're teaching your daughter guilt and self-hatred right from the get-go. If you raised her to think that she was a worthwhile human being, she might not want to submit silently to her husband when grows up - she might want to be a journalist or a doctor or (heaven forbid!) a scientist. Of course, as you yourself said a couple of posts back, women are not equal to men and cannot be allowed to hold positions of authority - the Bible says it, so of course it must be true! - so kudos to you for making sure that your daughter doesn't get any uppity notions that she deserves anything better than what you're giving her now.
Oh, and by the way, you might want to think about using paragraph breaks. The "solid wall of text" format only makes your craziness look even crazier.
Your child wakes every morning and tells you she will be good. From your own words, we see a girl obsessed with goodness, and being good, desperately seeking a confirmation of her worth that you will never give her.
She is just trying to please you. Do you also tell her that her drawings are ugly, that the shapes and colors are wrong?
I've known people who are raised like that, and it rarely ends well. When they realize they can never win, they can never be good, they fall into despair and self-loathing. Being good was my obsession, too, and it stunted me throughout my adolescence.
You've ignored us, all of us. You'll ignore me as surely you've ignored the first. Are you really so proud?
I'm going to take my place amongst the horrified masses in just a moment, but I'm here first to deliver a brief sermon, if you will.
Your daughter is clearly obsessed with being good. She wants to be good, and she doesn't understand the metaphysical ramifications of your insistence that it's impossible. This is not her trying to fly.
This is her actively seeking your approval, and you consistently denying it to her.
She is not trying to be a perfect child, without sin. She is just trying, in her infantile way, to make you happy. As a mortal, you know the limitations of mortal people, and are perhaps a little more forgiving than the Lord almighty.
And a cautionary note--children are like adults, in that they eventually tire of doing things which net them no positive results. Your daughter will soon realize that no matter how hard she tries, she can never be good enough to please you, and so she'll stop being good at all.
Why go to the effort to do the clearly impossible?
I, like all my fellows, say this out of concern for you and for your daughter. Are you really so prideful that you won't at least consider our advice?
Ohh, if only I could take your child away from you. I feel so bad for that poor little girl. ):
You make me sick, woman.
The only thing you will ever get by doing this to a four year old is that she falls in deep depression when an older child, promiscuous sex and drugs when a teenager, and eventually even suicide.
Your teaching someone to hate herself. To feel she's uncapable of doing anything right.
Do you honestly think this is religion? You, Cristhians, REALLY believe in a God that want your childreen to hate thenselfs and think they are good for nothing?
I yes, well, I'm glad I'm out of this boat, my Lady. Because it's sinking really fast.
I usually don't go in the field of telling about the real Christian mytology or proven fact to any Christian, discuss this is rather pointless. If you want to believe you have born a sinner because some made-of-dirt-animated-doll ate a freaking apple in the begining of your little sparkling world, then fine. Just don't shove it down the throat of a poor 4 years old child, making her feel bad day after day.
I hope this poor little girl survives you, and one day discover that your Bible gets "updated" every time they feel the need to, that your saints burned inocent people alive and and that she don't need to fear pleasure and happyness, nor live as if life it self was wrong.
I will be blunt: If your child commits suicide, it will be your fault. What happened to you to make you like this?
If the kid believes in Jesus, why should she be wracked with guilt or feel wretched? Calvinism loves to dwell on Adam's sin and forget (nay, spit on) Christ's forgiveness. You stupid Calvinist whore you are leading your daughter right to hell with your anti-God Deterministic crap.
If you believe the Bible is the word of God, then you should follow it to the letter. You should kill your children as required by your own book.
Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed.
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21
He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15
He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17
Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17
Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God.
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- Genesis 22:2,10
God killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.
The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30
Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.
And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. -- 2 Kings 2:23-24
Someday God will force parents to eat their own children.
And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29
And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53
And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19:9
And then there's this statement, which could only be found in the Bible:
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137:9
I am a Christian and a mother. I understand what you are saying; you cannot lie to your child and tell them everything they do is good, when it is not. If the child grows up thinking nothing they do is wrong; they can do no wrong as I believe some other posters here believe about themselves, they are ill prepared for life. I praise God for sisters in Christ like you who raise their children to know that God decides what is good and what is not and that we are to submit to His authority, not man's. I will pray for your family. I will also pray for those who accuse you of such horrible things. I'm sorry if any atheists are offended that I pray for them, but I do, and I will continue to do so.
In Christ,
Leigh-Ann
Wow, what a bunch of hate-filled comments here. Praying for you Jean.
Our comments are hate filled? We're not the ones who are raising a kid to feel worthless and wretched about herself. Save your prayers for her poor kid!
Or do you consider people who actually care about the mental well-being of children to be "hateful"?
Our comments are hate filled? We're not the ones who are raising a kid to feel worthless and wretched about herself. Save your prayers for her poor kid!
Careful, your ignorance is showing. She is not advocating degrading her child on a daily basis. Nothing of the sort at all. You're blowing it all out of proportion.
Like hell, Will. The only ignorant one here is you, and of course, her. There are people who've been raised like this who are still emotionally scarred.
Have you even bothered to read this blog entry?
By the way, Will, what makes you think that you have all the information then?
Careful, your ignorance is showing. She is not advocating degrading her child on a daily basis. Nothing of the sort at all. You're blowing it all out of proportion.
Oh? I do not believe in teaching children self esteem or that they should feel good about themselves, because they should not. If a person believes that the kid should not feel good about themselves, it sounds to me that they'd have to have a daily chore then, since there may be a day or two when the child does feel good about themselves.
I know that at one point Jean says: If she has been better than usual I will praise her and tell her, but that does not balance out in the least this person's goal of crushing this kids' self-worth.
What a an actual, kind, thinking parent would do is point out to the kid that even though no one's perfect, you should keep trying, and you'll get better. She's trying to make her kid think she's "wretched" and prevent her from feeling good about herself at all.
All because of your mythology's saying that some predecessor (Adam) made a mistake.
How stupid. If your "god" had any brains, he'd have scrapped the experiment then and there, and kept going until he got it right.
Jean also said that we are all born God hating and evil. More stupidity. How can a newborn baby even understand the concept of God, much less hate it?
And this person is a mental health nurse? I shudder to think of what she does with the patients in her care!
this is like a step by step guide to raising the jeffrey dahmers of the future. an emotionally barren, domineering mother is one thing most serial killers have in common. hope your god helps you out when those young uns are big enough to fight back.
Jean, I understand that you want to raise your daughter to share your beliefs, because you want to end up in heaven together after death. I don't share your belief in that afterlife, but I do understand how very much you believe that gaining this afterlife is everything and that only faith in Christ will bring it to you and to her.
However, I do think that you are inadvertently storing up future troubles with a troubled and rebellious child for yourself, and that you misunderstand the idea of instilling self-esteem in a child. Self-esteem is what gives people the strength to stop and listen to that quiet inner voice that says that they shouldn't just follow the latest trend or bandwagon, that they should stick to the principles of genersosity and kindness that they've been taught and stand up for what they believe. People without self-esteem cannot be strong witnesses for their beliefs.
People don't get self-esteem from being told that everything they do is right - just as some commentors here have pointed out that kids will give up if they feel that everything they do is wrong, kids will also give up on their parents as guides if their parents tell them that everything they do is perfect. There has to be a middle road.
Correcting and disciplining children should very much always be a case of hating the sin and loving the sinner, as the saying goes. Tell her "you did a bad thing" not "you are bad". Remind her that everyone makes mistakes or does unkind things at times (yes, you too), and that recognising this means that one can do better next time.
This is the big one - when you get very angry and frighten her, once you've calmed down, then apologise. You can still use discipline such as time-outs and loss of privileges (TV time, treats, playdates, school trips etc) as punishment for misbehaviour. But if she can see that you respect her enough to acknowledge to her when you have been wrong, and apologise to her for it, then you will generate such trust in her for you that it will astound you.
You don't have to lie to her about her being perfect to tell her that she is a delight to you and that you love her, and that you will always love her. But if all she hears is that she can never be good enough then she won't really believe that you love her, and if Jesus is always in your mouth while you berate her, then she won't trust in Jesus either, which is the opposite of what you want, isn't it? She might say what she knows you want to hear now, but when she's older she'll leap into the arms of the first no-good to tell her pretty lies about how she is wonderful, because she doesn't hear it from you.
Great post! All these atheistic comments are evidence of man's total depravity. Turn on comment moderation quick!
Earth calling Micah, there are concerned christians here too. Seems you are in denial - I hope you learn to accept that you are not inherently evil too - what a terrible way to live.
Billy Said:
Earth calling Micah, there are concerned christians here too. Seems you are in denial - I hope you learn to accept that you are not inherently evil too - what a terrible way to live.
You've not read your Bible have you?
All of the Atheists, who have no standard of truth, morality, and good, complain because this woman teachers her child she isn't "good".
Get over it, whiners.
Jean,
Thank you for such an encouraging post.
Just remember that Jesus said if people hate you, they hated Him first.
Those who are accusing you of child abuse are haters of God and haters of people. They're comments drip with hypocrisy. They will demand you tolerate their sin and unbelief while refusing to tolerate your faith in Christ.
One person who commented asked that you to give him your children. And that's ultimately what many of the commentators want. They do not want what's BEST for your child. They want your CHILD. And they do not want your children so that they can love your children. They want your children so that they can indoctrinate your children into their atheistic, secular humanistic worldview. The more people they can win to their point of view, the easier it is for them to ignore their own sin-stained conscience.
Don't fear them, Jean (Matthew 10:16-28). There is nothing they can do to you or your child--nothing of any eternal consequence. The God you love and serve is so much stronger than they and the god of this world whom they serve.
In the end, they will bow their knee before the Lord, whether they believe in Him or not. I just hope the Lord, by His sovereign grace and mercy, allows them to repent and believe the gospel before it's too late.
Jean, all the evidence you need to show that you are doing right by your four-year-old is to look at the hate and venom being spewed toward you and the Lord. If the God-haters loved you and how you raise your children, then the likelihood is that you wouldn't be raising your children in a way that is pleasing to God.
See their hatred for what it is--validation of your faith in Jesus Christ.
You've not read your Bible have you?
Will, why do you assume that? I could toy with you a bit here, but I'm one of those gus who used to teach the bible. Now, please look up the "no true scotsman fallacy" as I anticipate your next response
See their hatred for what it is--validation of your faith in Jesus Christ.
So, is your hatred of these comments validation that they are good?
Will, why do you assume that? I could toy with you a bit here, but I'm one of those gus who used to teach the bible.
Because the Bible teaches that we are ALL sinners. If you are assuming that concerned Christians are posting because the OP is in contradiction to Christianity, then you cannot possibly have a knowledge of Scripture.
@Anonymous said...
All of the Atheists, who have no standard of truth, morality, and good, complain because this woman teachers her child she isn't "good".
Get over it, whiners.
-----------
I guess you missed the part where OTHER CHRISTIANS are upset over this too. Oh, let me guess, they aren't REAL Christians because they don't believe in damaging their Children in the name of Christ.
You have a piss poor understanding of atheism but I will tell you this, as far as I am concerned my standard is actually much more moral than YOURS because I don't condone things that harm others or go against all factual knowledge (like that about what constitutes emotional child abuse), common sense and logic just because I read it in an compilation of ancient texts written by MEN who claimed to be 'inspired' by a God.
I've seen so many people speaking and I see both sides of the story but I have to say something.
Your child needs self worth. If she beleves she is always evil and can do no right on her own she may not have enough confidance to folow the teachings of God.
She needs to know she's worth getting saved. She needs to know she's strong enough to folow those teachings. She cant do that without some self worth.
She's just a child she dsoent know right from wrong completely yet and might not understand consiquences of actions so talking to her about what she's done wrong is a good thing.
Just before the afterlife comes she shoudnt be wolowing in guilt for every little thing she's done as it takes up to much time that could be used for doing something good to help another person. She should be able to walk up to God when she meets him and say "I know I wasnt perfect and I know I messed up sometimes but I did my best." and so should you.
Your not evil you did what you thought was right in your past and you may have messed up but your trying to do good now. You wernt evil back then you were maybe a little confused.
Both you and the little one are both as deserveing of Gods love.
May God protect you and your precious daughter from this godless world. We see the results of their godless way of rearing children all around us: school shootings, teen pregnancy, disrespect for authority. You keep raising your child to fear God because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. God bless you.
Will
Because the Bible teaches that we are ALL sinners.
At what point do you think I have said that it teaches otherwise? Psalm 51:5 for example does a nice job telling you what to believe. Did it never actually occur to you that I might just happen to disagree with the whole concept of biblical sin thing?
Yet, you judge me and make assumptions about me. Look up, plank, eye, bible.
Let's consider this, god creates man without the knowlegde of good and evil. God tells man not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God punishes man and his decendants, yet they never knew they were doing wrong - doesn't sound fair to me.
Then there is the problem of evolution and sin. I'm going to make a guess here (not an accusation as you are prone to doing). You deny evolution.
You appear selective in your reading of the bible. I suggest you read some verses on grace. Try Romans 7 and 8 (particularly 8:1). Still, I suppose you have to be selective, when the bible is full of contradictions.
Self esteem is the greatest curse to ever fall upon the world. The reason we're in such a depraved state as a nation, is because esteem self MORE than we esteem GOD.
Praise God for a God fearing mother, who is willing to raise up her child Biblically.
Jean, the reason people are posting hateful lying comments on your blog, is because for their whole life they've been told a lie. That they're, by nature, good people -- that they're not wretched depraved sinners in desperate need of a savior. They've neutered the Gospel, dulled the edge of it's blade.
Your theology (as far as this goes, i have no idea what all your doctrinal beliefs are ;P ) is 100% in accordance with the scriptures. Let no one tell you otherwise, do not cease to be a Godly mom, I thank God daily for my mom and dad, because they feared the Lord enough to raise me to fear him as well.
Anonymous
"You have a piss poor understanding of atheism"
They all do! check the "riduculous claim refuted" link (or what ever it is called). In the thread, some bright spark seems to think we consider people to be nothing more than meat machines. I have actually been to services that tell you what to think about non believers. Might blog on this later
Praise God! I'm thankful for you bringing out the truth about our nature. I wish I would have had a mother like you. My life turned into chaos for so long because my worldview was that we were basically good people to start out with, but I couldn't figure out in my 20's why there was so much pain, why people hurt people, the gossip, anger, etc. if we are basically good! Then I went to church and they said the same thing about people - that we are basically good and needed that "self esteem." What confusion!
If we are born good, why is it that I never had to tell my kids, "now you stop sharing!" or "honey, here's how you lie to get your way." No! That's ridiculous.
So I back you up girl. You keep looking at our Lord and draw your strength from Him.
Only the humble will receive the gift of eternal life:
"Thus says the Lord: 'Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; what is the house that you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest? All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the Lord. But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word.'" - Isaiah 66:1,2
Those who will not humble themselves will receive what they desire anyway: justice. I was just reading in 1 Kings 21 this morning about the wickedness of King Ahab. In my heart, as I was reading, I thought, "he doesn't deserve mercy. Look what he has done!" But I read what the righteous God of the universe had to say after King Ahab humbled himself:
"And when Ahab heard those words, he tore his clothes and put sackcloth on his flesh and qfasted and lay in sackcloth and went about dejectedly. And the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite, saying, “Have you seen how Ahab has humbled himself before me? Because he has humbled himself before Me, I will not bring the disaster in his days; but in his son’s days I will bring the disaster upon his house.” - 1 Kings 21:27-29
WOW! God is very merciful to the humble, huh?
I pray the Lord will open the eyes of those enslaved to their sinful passions and turn to Him who is the only One who can have mercy upon their souls. For He says in Galatians 5:19-21:
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, cdivisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
I was ALL those things above ^ (and more), but the Lord had mercy.
Oh and by the way, I aborted two of my kids too. I believed the lie of Planned Parenthood that they were just "tissue" and didn't feel anything. Little did I know, they were complete human beings ripped and torn apart and thrown away. Where was their "choice" when I chose to allow that? Though the Lord says, "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13), He forgave me and healed me and called me His!
Will pray for you, sister.
Tamara
Ohio
About me: born August 1971, died and born AGAIN October 2006. Jesus said, "I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Will you see the kingdom of God? See www.MyLifeAfterDeath.org
Jean,
I was pointed to your blog by a man in church, and I want to encourage you to keep strong in your faith. I will be praying for you and for your family. It is exciting that your daughter understands the need for a Savior when many grown ups do not.
1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
Be strong in the Lord Jean. I'll be praying for you and your little one.
With love in Christ,
Lauren
I honestly don't recall reading anyone claiming that we are born good. I know this is big school for some of you, but saying that we are not born evil doesn't necessarily mean that we are born good.
Has it ever occurred to any of you that human beings are born prudent? They're neither good nor evil, they're just themselves. They don't need to be convinced that they're wretched, they just need to be socialized. This is a testable hypothesis that actually does explain the way children behave.
@Anna "Banana" Jackson:
Actually Anna, the rates for teen pregnancy are much higher in God fearing states that preach abstinence only as opposed to more progressive places. Oh and it's also been proven that the more secular a country is the less violence there is too but you go ahead and keep on believing that religion would be the magic cure all to societal ills.
Wow. Nothing has confirmed to me that the Bible is true about atheists, calling them "fools," than this post and the ensuing comments.
Count the number of instances of the term "child abuse," used by the small army of Dawkins-bots, for general amusement. (Ironically, atheists like to call themselves "freethinkers"! LOL!)
As for the so-called "Christians" who object to this post, you do nothing but display your ignorance of the Bible, which hardly paints a rosy picture of your innocent little darlings. Go do some Bible study before you prove yourselves to be even more foolish.
Jean, obviously there is a "queen bee" sending all her drones over here to post their macros. Pay them no mind, and don't stop posting your theologically correct insights. Thanks for the great read!
Jean,
Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on Christ's account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.
Hi Jean, Lane Chaplin just posted on this blog entry on his facebook page and I thought I'd check it out. It's pretty sad, but expected, that you're getting the kind of flak you are from the world for being a true Christian and trying to train your daughter in righteousness. I applaud your efforts and pray that one day God will save your daughter. For now you're headed in the right direction. May God bless you!
Melissa : )
http://titus2wifeandmommy.blogspot.com
http://atypicalchristianity.blogspot.com
http://recipesfromtheheartofyourhome.blogspot.com
It is so wonderful when we see the Lord begin to work in our childrens lives.
Out of the mouths of babes.
Praise the Lord, and thankyou for sharing
In HIS Keeping,
Mrs. B
Jean,
You are in my prayers here in Wylie TX.
You keep on raising your daughter in the admonition of the Lord.
Jesus says:
"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also."
-John 15:18-23
Jean, don't forget to tell your child how wonderful slavery is.
Praise God that your child has come to see her need for a savior at such a young age. I will pray for her and you.
SK
I followed a link from Lane Chaplain's facebook page. I am amazed at the comments that have been made especially by those who call themselves Christians. While I do not agree with the doctrine of "original sin" and "total depravity", I do believe your heart is right and you love your daughter by teaching her that apart from Jesus Christ, we are nothing.
I would like to respond to the following question by one your commentor.
Should she not feel the confidence to approach any decision without first running it past Jesus?
Absolutely NOT. This is exactly the reason so many lives are running amok today, so to speak. Decisions made without "running it past" Jesus is why the world is in the condition it is. Actually, we even need to stop "running it past" Jesus, and take the time to wait and listen for his wisdom and direction.
I don't you nor the life you live, but I want to encourage you in teaching your daughter the Scriptures and that God will give the wisdom and direction you need.
Becky
Thanks for your encouraging entry! Keep looking to the Lord!
Jeff
Jean,
Those who are using the Bible to criticize you clearly have only read the parts that allow them to twist it into their own little pattern, an action that is condemned repeatedly in Scripture. These are the same people who will tell you that the Bible says 'there is no god.'
I applaud your efforts to raise Godly children. May he bless you richly. Such persecutionas you are receiving only serves to build your reward in Heaven. And I'll see you there!
Jean, you keep going girl! Remember what Paul Washer said about the baby in your arms. We are all sinners! All Ages! Keep on the Godly Path!
Prayers!
Keep up the good fight of faith, Jean. You and your children are loved and prayed for from Atlanta, Georgia.
Remember when you are dragged before men and kings, it is for the purpose of proclaiming the glorious Gospel of our King and Saviour. (Matthew 10:18-20)
iHsay, (in His service and yours)
Canyon
You are a bad person.
You'll get yours.
And a good person will get your daughter.
I really just pray that you have released this burden on your daughter by telling her that she doesn't HAVE to be good all the time to go to heaven, that's why Jesus died for her. It's not a requirement for us to be sin free to go to heaven... don't put her under a burden of "good works" or you might find her trying to earn her salvation later in life and that's not how it works.
I can't help but feel sorry for your daughter.. even though I totally agree with you not wanting to boost her ego like so many children are today (I don't do that either) but when my children sin by telling lies etc I tell them how important it is not to lie because 1. it hurts others and 2. it's a sin against God.
I don't believe you need to guilt a child so badly for them to follow. They will follow God if you show them the way and show them God's love through you.
I'm praying for you through this time. God bless.
A lot of atheists heaping condemnation on Jean, but nary a one giving a reason for their judgement! What she has done (we are told) is an evil, disgusting, downright evil, evil evil, disturbing, despicable, morally bankrupt, chilliing, selfish, irresponsible, abysmal, vile and wretched thing by an evil woman seeking to obey an evil god. But no one has told us how these charges can be determined, or, exactly how and why they are bad.
She's committed child abuse, but no one has given us a moral foundation for why child abuse is wrong. Who determines that it is? She's told that she should follow scriptural mandates and just murder her child, but with only a presumption that murdering a child would somehow be wrong. Who determines that murder is wrong? Who determines that Jean's god is evil? What exactly is the standard by which he is to be judged?
The hypocrisy of atheism in making these determinations is that it cannot be made without appealing to Jean's God. But because they cannot accept the reality of Jean's God, the only option left is for atheists to appoint themselves god and therefore the judge of everyone else. That's why Froggie assumes that he can call Jean to the dock and demand from her an answer. Froggie assumes that he is not required to answer Jean's God, but insists that she must answer his.
In the end, these atheists know their hypocrisy, which is why they travel together across the internet in a pack of cowards until they find a loving mother sharing a moment of tenderness with her child and cowardly atack her. When their cowardice is exposed, they can only express hope for their shining warrior and strongest expression of their folly, the intrusive and oppressive state, to intercede for them and save us poor, deluded, evil Christians from our sinful selves.
WOW! All these bad comments are from Atheists! CRazy! Some Richard Dawkins worship behind most of the comments. Maybe you can call a bug exterminator to get rid of them?
Jean,
Wow, wading through all that criticism made my eyes hurt!
I saw this off Facebook, and hope that I can offer some encouragement as a brother-in-Christ.
Sister, you're doing the right thing. I was overjoyed when I read that the Holy Spirit had taught your daughter that. What a blessing and what joy!
If she were my daughter, I'd have to turn my face away in tears to thank the Lord!
God bless you, your lovely daughter and everyone at home. Our prayers are with you.
Soli deo Gloria,
Isaiah, a brother-in-Christ in Singapore
http://wordnverse.com
Jean,
Praise God for your daughter's understanding! Truly God's hand is on her mind and life. What a tremendous blessing. I so appreciate your story, as I lift up a true Christian mother who stands for God in everything, especially in the rearing of her children. I am praying for God's protection of your family. The world simply CANNOT understand what you are saying, and how much they are in need of wisdom that only Jesus Christ can provide. Keep fighting the good fight!!
The hypocrisy of atheism in making these determinations [of right and wrong] is that it cannot be made without appealing to Jean's God.
That's totally wrong, and has been often refuted.
All that's required to develop a sense of ethics regarding right and wrong is empathy and compassion, and to develop an ethical system all that is required is empirically observing that people reciprocating kindness, generosity and tolerance makes communities safer and friendlier and life more joyful.
To believe that humans only know right from wrong because of the word of a divine being, that our natural responses to each other of empathy and compassion don't tell us what is the proper course in associating with others, strikes me as a very cold hearted faith.
One anonymous poster wrote:
A lot of atheists heaping condemnation on Jean, but nary a one giving a reason for their judgement!
That's because the atheists have no foundation for their judgment. They don't believe in the nicey-nicey God any more than the meanie God.
The atheists here commenting are at least showing some sanity. And I have to add that I'm glad to see some Christians on here calling you out on the abusive and sick nature of your treatment of your child.
As for atheists not believing in the nicey nice god or the meanie mean one, I'm not sure what that has to do with our ability to plainly see that this sort of behavior is insane. Aside from, apparently, increasing our likelihood of seeing it for what it is.
All that's required to develop a sense of ethics regarding right and wrong is empathy and compassion, and to develop an ethical system all that is required is empirically observing that people reciprocating kindness, generosity and tolerance makes communities safer and friendlier and life more joyful.
Who made that determination? How was it made? Who says "That's all required" and how do they know?
... strikes me as a very cold hearted faith.
As I just posted the only option left for atheists is to declare themselves god and judge. You proved my point.
Hi Jean!!
I am a Mom (Mum) just like you. I have 5 children and I think your post is wonderful. I have read a handful of comments left on your blog and it is evident that there are false converts leaving comments who don't even understand the grace of God. Be encouraged that you are getting so many to respond to your blog post. Who knows maybe someone will be saved through this blog post. This is what happens when sin gets talked about, we don't want to hear about it. But that is what is wrong with the church today it's all about being a better you. Continue to press on for the glory of God. You are doing a great job and God will be glorified. From one sister in the Lord to another. Blessings, Renee
inteleksual:
Aside from, apparently, increasing our likelihood of seeing it for what it is.
Not to mention giving you an opportunity to impose your morality on others. The hypocrisy is astounding.
Praise God. It seems the Lord is working in your childs life.
Doug
Jean,
The dilusions of the world should not sway you, the hatred and vile abuse you have received here are not because they have rejected you, it is that they have rejected God, and hate Him and His teachings. How wonderful and sweet your story is, I hope that you are thinking of homeschooling your precious little ones, because many of the vilest on this post are probably teachers, just waiting to corrupt your precious gifts God has given to you. Don't let the world have them and indoctrinate them with their hatred of God and love of sin.
Keep raising your children in the fear and abmonition of the Lord, and reject the babble of fools. God bless you Jean. You give me hope for the future with your wonderful and godly parenting.
Kush
There are some objective moral truisms. One of those is that children deserve humane care and a psychologically sound upbringing.
It's not about my morality vs. yours. If you weren't so blinded by magical thinking and hopeless adherence to the tenets of a faith that any rational person, religious or not, could see contains some fairly outdated ideas, you'd be able to grasp that.
... strikes me as a very cold hearted faith.
As I just posted the only option left for atheists is to declare themselves god and judge. You proved my point.
I didn't make any definitive pronouncement or declaration, I offered an opinion, clearly indicated as such by the words "strikes me as". Opinions are not binding judgements. Everybody has opinions.
As to how the role of natural human empathy and compassion in establishing ethics was determined, it was through study and rational analysis of many different cultures and their rules of law and morality, seeing what they have in common even though their holy books are claimed to derive from utterly different entities.
The one very good thing that religion does for groups of people is provide them with a highly socially acceptable framework for community association, and communal fellowship has demonstrated emotional benefits for people. But religion is not the only way to experience communal fellowship, and other ways of associating with people don't come with the horrendous guilt and shame for not being perfect attached.
I don't think that all humans are born good, but I don't think that they are all bad, either. Humans are capable of horrible evil, but it is very rare that small children commit evil. Small children commit acts of mischief, selfishness, unkindness and lacking consideration for others - they certainly need to be trained to be more mannerly and considerate, but to tell them that their acts reveal their inner depravity/evil heart is an emotional sledgehammer.
Do you think God wants people to emotionally damage their children in order to make them believe? If you do believe that, why would you want to spend eternity under such a being's authority?
Also, "kush", hate =/= lack of belief in.
Just wanted to clear that up. Maybe you could pass it along to everyone else who doesn't get it?
Jean, stay strong in the faith! May God continually sustain you in faithfully raising your children in the fear of the Lord. The blind people commenting on here are blind because they have no fear of the Lord. They are foolish and more blind than your own daughter. Praise God for the work of the Holy Spirit in your daughter's life! Your brother in Christ.
Dear Jean,
Just want to encourage you... What you're saying in this blog is quite good.
A question for the religiously-inclined: If this lady was an atheist telling her child she was born evil and awful would THAT be abusive? Honestly, take religion out of the picture and it’s just as bad. It just so happens that religion gives the majority of people an excuse for this sort of atrocious behavior.
Ps 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
It encouraging to see you love for your children, and care for their souls.
Jean, haven't received any emails from you the last three-four days. I hope and pray that you and the family are doing okay.
You are in our prayers.
"For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Claiming to be wise, they became fools, - Romans 1:21-22"
That pretty much sums up what kind of people those who come here to attack you are. They do not know, Jean... They just do not know. May the Lord have mercy on their poor, lost souls...
Wow that is amazing! I'll be praying for you.
(psalm 69:35) "O God, You are more awesome than Your holy places. The God of Israel is He who gives strength and power to His people."
Blessed be God!
I just want to encourage you in the lord. I'm sorry that other people treat you like you have done something wromg when what really happened was a work of God.
That's because the atheists have no foundation for their judgment. They don't believe in the nicey-nicey God any more than the meanie God.
That's because no one asked. You're not trying to demonise atheists now are you? You guys are the one with the moral problem - you claim morality comes from god, but no one ever provides any real evidence. You guy seem to miss the evidential gap that needs to be filled and just assume god. I believe morality is relative - no right, no wrong - just what you make of it - shaped by culture and natural selection - or perhaps you think slaver is still ok.
You guys just cant think for yourselves - if I visit here again, your torment will depress me.
I love the way you dismiss other believers who disagree with you as not true believers - just love religious tolerance - you dont need to think about the consequences of your actions - you just let others tell you what to think - and you boast about it!
Jean,
May God bless you as you obey him and bring up your children in the way they should go!
Matthew 5:11
Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me.
Yeah, your kids do need a savior... to save them from you. I know this kind of abuse all too well, and I know it from having been raised by parents who believe, just as you do, that justification for doing it lies in religion. By the time I was 17, I left and never went back and went about building a life of my own... and believe me, that twisted religious abuse isn't part of it.
What you're doing to your children is a horrible thing, whatever justification you find in your intepretation of some religious text. If your children survive, they'll hate you for it.
In the meantime, I hope they'll find the psychological help they're going to need to make it through what you're doing to them. I can tell you another thing from experience; if they don't find themselves approved of and accepted in the eyes of their parents, there are plenty of people waiting in the wings to "accept" them for all the wrong reasons.
I wish your children all the luck in the world of finding their way in it. And I hope the substitutes they find for loving parents in their adolescence don't do them too much damage.
First, I want to say that I rejoice with you that the Lord is working so profoundly in your daughter's life. However, as I read the comments in response to such a moment, I must say it is sad when a four year old understands human nature and theology better than most of these "adults".
Thank you for the encouraging story. I was just told from a friend a few months ago how in tee ball there are no losers for it would be bad for the kids self estem. I said how do you expect these kids to learn about life.Things are not just handed to you. Once agin thank you and may God bless you and your children.
Billy just completely undermined his own arguments against Jean's post in the following statement:
I believe morality is relative - no right, no wrong - just what you make of it - shaped by culture and natural selection
If morality is completely relative, then you have absolutely no basis to criticize Jean. You have no basis to say that what Christians teach their children is morally right or wrong. You have no basis to claim that stealing is wrong, or that rape is wrong. To claim that morality is relative is to say that there should be no law. For what is law, but a legislation of morality in most instances?
I don't see what the big deal is. Everyone knows that people aren't perfect! That's why we hear things like "I'm only human" and "All people make mistakes"
Teaching someone that truth is a big deal. I thought the new trend was to let someone believe what they want to?
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Though we are sinners the wonderful news is that we have a wonderful Saviour! What a joy to read your words and what a loving mother you are to point your daughter to Jesus Christ. What a story of love! Thank you for your words!
Jean,
I've seen much the same heart in my son (now six) and I know that he (as, I'm confident, is the case for your daughter) is not insecure, mal-adjusted, or unhappy -- rather, he's recognized at an uncommonly early age that we cannot by force of will remake ourselves without our imperfections. I'm sorry so many of your readers are so blinded and misunderstand so badly the beauty of where your daughter is spiritually.
Hang in there!
I find it hard to read this blog.
Your child is beautiful and no one is all evil. The attempt at being good is far more important that actually being good. Our lives as so short and letting your child always believe they were always bad makes me sad indeed.
It's the weakness that draws you to your religion and the attempt to be good in your own right. This attempt is to complex for a child. Best of luck with raising your children but I believe you are being to hard on your daughter. Her attempt to be good is only to please you, her mother. In the end your love for her should over rule her need to be good, but I fear the opposite on this path. 10 years from now she will be telling you that you've done wrong and deciding to judge you. You are not perfect and it's easy to constantly tell someone they are wrong when no one is watching your mistakes.
Tell her what your God expects and be happy in her attempts to try to live up to his/her/they very high expectations. I know you mean well, but your daughter was both both evil and good.
God bless you and your daughter. Rejoice in the Lord always even though satan walks about trying to seek out and destroy us Christians. I will be praying for you and your daughter. Remember: "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it." Proverbs 22:6 Be strong in the Lord. :-)
Greetings!
I heard about your post on the way of the master radio show and was quite angered at some of the comments he read on the air. I want to encourage you to keep doing what you are doing. I think it is beautiful and I hope that my kids will do this too when they get old enough. Keep up the good work and teaching your daughter in a biblical fashion! There are not many parents doing that in this day and age.
~ME~
Praise God, here's a verse for encouragement---> "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision." -Psalm 2:4
Note: to have them in derision means that God scoffs at them, them refering to those who hate God and talk back to him.
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:10
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23
People can think/say what they want, but it doesn't change what God and the bible says.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Hebrews 9:27
Keep up the witness for truth and Jesus.
http://jesusistheonlyway.wordpress.com/
Dearest Sister Jean,
My name's Doug and I'm 17 years old. A brother in Christ sent me a link to this blog and it had me in tears. God is doing such a special work in your daughter's heart, no matter what people may well say.
Rest assured that your family in Christ are praying with you for God's comforting grace to be with you.
To those "Christians" who object, I pose a simple question: Which is better: to lie to a child and raise them with a 100% lie that they are good when they themselves know they aren't or raise them knowing the Biblical truth that they may repent?"
Jean,
I have 4 daughters and have shared the law and Gospel with them from their earliest ages...to do otherwise is simply child abuse. All of my children (18 to 6) now profess a love for God and show fruits of their love for Him.
It's an encouragement for me to hear your story! Thanks for sharing.
You religious people are funny, like brain washed funny.
Jean,
Isn't it an awesome thing to see the Holy Spirit work in your child's life? I have two children (son who is 7 and daughter who is 8 1/2 years old) and I try to raise them with a Biblical mindset of the world too.
True love is presenting the Gospel to the unsaved. And as parents it is our first duty to make sure our children at least know the truth of the Gospel, human depravity and the need for a Savior. My oldest knows her sin. I’m still praying for my son. He has the “head knowledge” but not the “heart knowledge”. We present the Gospel and the Lord does the saving.
Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.
(Proverbs 22:6 NASB)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.
(Psalms 51:5 NASB)
Jean,
Praying you remain strong in the Lord! Those that call this "child-abuse" just don't understand.
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20
We are all born wretched sinners, and without having and internalizing this knowledge we CANNOT come to repentence and faith in Christ. Thank you for teaching your daughter the truth, and not modern psycho-babble and false "self-esteem".
heard about you on WOTM. You go girl!
Your sister in Christ.
Jean, ignore these know-it-alls. Their "self-esteem"-centered parenting is what has brought us to the sad state that were are in today with school shootings and the like. The problem is not a lack of self-esteem but an overabundance of it. Children today think the world revolves around them and that other people are there to make them happy.
The recognition that we are sinners has nothing to do with low self-esteem. We're all sinners. We need to see ourselves as we actually are and not believe that we are somehow better than others or that we are able to please God based on our own merits.
Jean, I'm with you.
Savour of life, savour of death. You know what I'm talking about.
God bless.
There's an awful lot of self-loathing going on in this thread.
While it's nice and good and healthy to promote humility, taking it too far is unhealthy. Both to the individual and his/her family
Jean:
Do think it's right when, in certain parts of Africa, people who are accused of being witches are killed?
"A question for the religiously-inclined: If this lady was telling her child she was born evil and awful without a religious basis would THAT be bad? Honestly, take religion out of the picture and it’s just as bad. It just so happens that religion gives the majority of people an excuse for this sort of atrocious behavior."
I will answer this one.
I was born to atheist parents that divorced when I was very young. My mother re-married to a VERY angry atheist man that did all of what you mention, and a whole lot more. I grew up resenting what he did, thinking that surely there was something good in me somewhere, but it turns out that there wasn't, and that even thought he didn't know why, he was correct.
Some will think that I had an evil childhood, but I look back on it now with thanks. It turned out to be just the preparatory work I would need for a life of ministry to people just like my stepfather. The Lord turned any anger I had about my childhood woes into desires to reach the man that caused them with the saving truth of Jesus Christ.
I went to visit him a few years ago, but he said he would only talk to me if I wouldn't speak anything of Christ to him. I responded that speaking of Christ is as natural as breathing to me, and I couldn't prevent it if I tried. He wouldn't let me in his house.
He's close to dying, but not dead yet, and I still hold out hope for the salvation of his soul, which is something quite different than what he taught me growing up. I thank the Lord for this man's influence in my life and the work he did in preparing me for bringing the gospel of Jesus Christ to the vilest of the vile. Call it what you want, but in his ignorance this man did me a great favor and much good. For that I am truly thankful!
Like Joseph's example, God has a funny way of working through seemingly difficult situations, and bringing good out of it. Yes, from the example of Caiaphas and others, we see that God even works through atheists to accomplish His ends.
If the Lord can save me via the preaching of an atheist, He can save anyone!
Frank
What a wonderful story! What a wonderful Savior we have! Rejoice in Him...you have a treasure that cannot be bought with earthly treasure! I've read just a few of the comments and I want to encourage you not to be down cast by what they have said about you being a child abuser. They know not God and so hate Him...as He promised us they will also hate us and persecute us. The Lord is on your side. Here is an old hymn for encouragement!
Be still, my soul: the Lord is on thy side.
Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain.
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In every change, He faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul: thy best, thy heavenly Friend
Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end.
Be still, my soul: thy God doth undertake
To guide the future, as He has the past.
Thy hope, thy confidence let nothing shake;
All now mysterious shall be bright at last.
Be still, my soul: the waves and winds still know
His voice Who ruled them while He dwelt below.
Be still, my soul: when dearest friends depart,
And all is darkened in the vale of tears,
Then shalt thou better know His love, His heart,
Who comes to soothe thy sorrow and thy fears.
Be still, my soul: thy Jesus can repay
From His own fullness all He takes away.
Be still, my soul: the hour is hastening on
When we shall be forever with the Lord.
When disappointment, grief and fear are gone,
Sorrow forgot, love’s purest joys restored.
Be still, my soul: when change and tears are past
All safe and blessèd we shall meet at last.
Be still, my soul: begin the song of praise
On earth, be leaving, to Thy Lord on high;
Acknowledge Him in all thy words and ways,
So shall He view thee with a well pleased eye.
Be still, my soul: the Sun of life divine
Through passing clouds shall but more brightly shine.
Jean:
Blessings to you and I am praying that the Lord will help her to come to a saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
We are all born in sin, but it is the substitutionary work of Jesus Christ on the Cross that gives us hope.
And by God's Grace, he will save your daughter.
For the rest, who are attacking this woman, I would remind you that 10 out of 10 people die. You are a part of the ultimate statistic. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?
You need to visit
http://www.needgod.com
You're teaching your child to hate herself?
Wow, she's going to need quite a bit of therapy.
Do you know what it's like to hate yourself? Do you have ANY idea what you're doing to your daughter? You're abusing her, plain and simple.
Do you know what happens to people when they hear how awful they are (especially when it's a blatant lie permeated by a 2000 year old piece of fiction written by prejudiced old men claiming to have been touched by God)? My mother drove both me and my sister to contemplate suicide, and no amount of Jesus bullshit changed that.
You call that virtuous? You call what your doing VIRTUOUS? I call it hate and bullying.
Oh, but it's ordained in the Bible to emotionally abuse our children, isn't it? Well, how about this:
Children shouldn't be told that they are wretched and doomed.
You see, God told me to write that. I can't prove it, but if you don't take my word for it, you get to suffer for all eternity.
How is the preceding statement ANY DIFFERENT from the Bible?
If there is ANY justice in this world, and if Hell exists, I'll meet you there, and I will laugh so hard that even the other damned souls will join in with me.
Praise God! Be encouraged by the hate you are getting from the unbelievers! They prove your faith in Christ to be true! Praise GOD!
And before you say "Atheist!": I'm Agnostic, because any God that supports emotionally destroying your child isn't one I wish to be saved by.
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